Steering Failure Safety issue DS 41 2014

[audacity]

Both my wife and I are planning on retiring next year and sold our existing sailboat to upgrade into a boat that we felt we could sail throughout the Pacific Northwest during our retirement years. We decided to purchase a new Jeanneau for that mission.

From the first day we picked up the brand new Jeanneau DS 41 2014 in May of 2014 there has been a series of both serious and minor quality, engineering design and workmanship issues with the boat. These issues have resulted in my family being afraid to cruise on the boat.

When we picked up the boat in May it had a saltwater leak that took 6 weeks to locate and fix. During this time, if we stayed on the boat, we could hear the bilge pump continually cycling all night long pumping out the water. We feared the boat would actually sink at one point. This leak was compounded by the boat having a design flaw that allowed a forward bow down attitude allowing the water from the leak to pool in the bow. To correct the bow down problem we had to remove 150 feet of anchor chain that we had originally purchased as an option to insure safe anchoring in the NW waters. We no longer have this safety feature.

While cruising in June, the auto pilot linkage failed and after a sudden starboard turn, never worked again until the failed linkage was reconnected by Marine services 2 weeks later. Fortunately no one was hurt when the auto pilot linkage disconnected and the sailboat made the hard starboard turn without notice.

On 29 August 2014 we set out for a Labor Day cruise. Three hours into the sail the steering linkage completely disconnected in both wheels and resulted in a violent starboard turn and no steering control at all. If this had happened 15 minutes sooner we would have been under sail in 25 Knot winds and could have had catastrophic consequences, 15 minutes later we could have been in Active Pass in Canada with the result of then being rudderless and out of control among large passenger ferries, rock shoals and fast currents. Apparent failure was a poorly designed steering interconnect with the rudder.

Thankfully this failure of the steering happened in open water and under power. Even then the violence of the turn and roll combined with the three foot sea swells could have easily thrown myself or my wife overboard if we had been standing in the cockpit. Our dog almost went overboard but we saved her as she fell toward the life lines as a result of the unexpected turn and roll.

I installed the manual emergency rudder control and was forced to return to my home port of Semiahmoo WA in 3 foot swells and 25 knot wind while manually steering the boats rudder directly. The return took 3 hours of pure physical agony due to having to steer the boat with of manual steering in the high wind and waves as well as deal with my anger at your company for selling me such a poor quality craft.

In addition to these safety problems above, we have had a long list of items either needing repair or replacing incorrect parts that were installed on the boat. This list includes wrong pulley for jib, broken floor in rear head due to poor installation, missing door part on forward head, all door handles coming off in our hands with normal use, broken glass in forward window, broken main hatch door, cracked toilet seat, electrical outlets being installed improperly and on and on. I would be happy to provide you a comprehensive list of these broken or missing or incorrectly installed items if you like. And the fact that there are so many items on a new boat punch list reinforces my opinion that the Jeanneau factory manufactures a poor quality product with very poor workmanship standards.

Has anyone else had similar quality, workmanship or engineering issues with their boat?

[singoviv]

WOW... Very disturbing story.

[abgreenbank]

Interesting you have so many problems, I took delivery of a 50DS in April, we still have nearly 20 jelcoat defects on the deck, cockpit steps don't fit properly, roof linings fall down, drawers in cabin poorly designed or catches not fitted, lazzerette panels fall into steering gear (fixed myself), anchor locker drains 3 inches from bottom so anchor chain sits in water( jeanneau say this is a standard feature), holding tank leak, shower drain leak, main galley drain leak, raymarine EV-1 installed in middle of AC panel so it has difficulty in linearising etc etc.
And to add to my woes primer is showing through the antifoul after the world record 3 hours start to finish prep,prime and antifoul job at the commissioning yard.
i can't say that it's badly designed it's just poor quality control, for example the holding tank leak was from the inlet where the 2 jubilee clips chosen were fully tightened, but too large and as they were too large they had not fully gripped the pipe.
Maybe you are lucky to have some problems rectified, but so far my boat has been in the wrong place or the boatyard too expensive and jeanneau has refused to authorise the repair of any of these items, however just had another yard quote and maybe having progress.

The solution to your trim problems is not to remove the anchor chain but to add weight to the aft of the boat, while my boat was been commissioned saw a Dufour 56, hull number 2 I think, that had a starboard list of around 5 degrees, the answer apparently was lead and not filling one of the water tanks.

i still love my boat and am not letting the problems affect my enjoyment, and I think the boat you bought is a well designed good looking boat that once the problems are ironed out, you will love too.

rgrds
Ab

[Peter123]

A dreadful story, I'm sorry.

We had very very poor after sales service for various faults on our new Jeanneau a few years ago but most of our problems were sorted out after I publicised our problems by posting a thread on ybw.com and kept it current until hundreds of people had seen it and many had commented. A few days later, by coincidence (?), the boss of the firm that had sold it to us phoned me up and agreed to sort everything out. He ceased to sell Jeanneaus some months later and he is no longer a dealer.

My advice .... go on about it on this website and also ybw.com until your dealer agrees to sort all the problems out properly.
Send him a link to your thread.
If he doesn't fix everything properly you should consider naming and shaming him.

[Trevor]

Hello audacity,

I feel really bad when I see your post because after you have spent a lot of money you just want an enjoyable experience and a hassle free couple of years before any issues appear. I went back to a post I made in February of 2008 where I outlined some of the challenges we experienced when we bought a new Jeanneau SO36i back then. We were quite fortunate as our local dealer is very good and genuinely tried to assist to his best ability in all of our issues. The local dealer principals are serious enthusiasts too so they know what they are doing and fully understand any issues when they are described. As I said at the end of the thread, it sounds like we had a lot of problems but in fact they were all manageable and I guess it means boats are a complex beast.   Your steering issue sounds much more serious than most of ours but I thought it was worth sharing our experiences so you didn't think nearly everyone who buys a new boat has absolutely no issues to deal with.

The steering issues are serious but when fixed, surely it will be fine for the next 20 years. Perhaps it was just the locking nuts not being tightened by the commissioning yard because rudder and keel are not attached when shipped from the factory so Jeanneau are relying on the expertise of the commisssioning yard to ensure all of that is fitted properly. I am not making excuses though because you paid the money and you are the customer and you have a right to be happy with the purchase.

I would take a deep breath, attack each issue one at a time, commit to make it your hobby to get it just right and enjoy that very beautiful boat. Boats need constant tweeking, adjustment, maintenance and love and I think that applies from the moment they come out of the mould.  The upside is the more you investigate and resolve, the more you will know about that boat which as an owner is a really good thing.




Hello Tushar<
I will send you the drawing for the autopilot. It is the Raymarine type 1 linear mechanical drive. Without the drawing I would have struggled to have known what to do.

The fridge in ours seals well and I cannot really imagine the fault you describe as it is a top opening fridge. We have no problem with the oven either.

We note on a starboard tack if the head sink drain sea-cock is not closed she fills with water.

When delivered, the fuel and aft water tank guages didn't work but now they are fixed.

We do not like the saloon hatch opening toward the rear although we understand why the factory had to do that as the design has the hatch too close to the mast to open toward the front. We think this is a major blunder and we requested the hatch be reversed in the factory but they forgot. We are getting it turned around.

Battery capacity is pretty poor and often we must start the engine to recharge. I think it is fitted with car batteries from the factory. It has a 60-amp alternator on the Yanmar which I would have preferred to be a higher rating.

I have bent the swimming ladder and have noticed a lot of others are bent also. It is too weak and rests against a shape edge on the transom.

I'm not sure why they would have fitted the genoa halyard clutch on the mast when it could have been fitted on the coach roof. We release the genoa halyard tension after each sail so it is a bit inconvenient.

We think the shower rose is too heavy a flow rate for a boat and does not stay in "spray mode" but goes back to single stream mode if pressure is not enough. It looks good at the boat show but is quite impractical I think.

The saloon table extension is a complete joke so if offered that extension when buying a boat do not assume it will all fit nicely like we did. The cost was pretty high and we would never have ordered it if we had known.

Our Raymarine depth sounder keeps giving us false readings (low water alarm) which is very annoying.

The float switch on the bilge pump system does not work properly. It can be covered in water and the bilge does not turn on. It is intermittent but I really must get to fixing that.

It sounds like we are having a lot of problems but we really love this boat and in fact in general she is beautiful. We think she represents good value for money and is a very well thought out design.

Regards,

Trevor


Read more: jeanneau.proboards.com/search/results?who_at_least_one=910&display_as=0#ixzz3HZnLYxaz

[sailbleu]

After reading these stories , who still wants to buy a new Jeanneau ?
They say you become old when remeniscing about how good it was in the past , but in this case it's actually justified.
Man , this competition-race for market share will sooner or later be costing human tragedy and lives.

Good luck

[singoviv]

I think it's all about the dealer and giving them ample time to set up the boat. About to find out so I'll let you know

[MalcolmP]

It is always disappointing when things are go wrong, especially with new and expensive items, but I think we should all bear in mind there are also quite often product recalls on major items. Boats are complex pieces of kit, and yes the factory, their suppliers and the dealers need to put every effort in ensuring safe, reliable equipment ex-works, but equally it is important to ensure that when things go wrong that the suppliers/producers are properly informed and have adequate time to respond. 

Simply switching to media overload as some of the subsequent posts seem to be advocating seems at least premature. Jeanneau have produced thousands of great, reliable and safe boats, that many of us are very proud to own. Until the full fault details have been investigated, and a reasonable time period for a Jeanneau response and hopefully rectified then I consider that emotive comments, particularly from those who do not know the actual issues are unlikely to be helpful. 

Malcolm

[sailbleu]

Malcolm,

I agree with what you say , but it must also be said that the quality of the new generation of boats ( not just Jeanneau) suffer substantially due to competition and trying to stay alive. That CAN become very dangerous no ?
I would like to express that I'm very pleased with my boat , I really am ! .
But some horrible stories of new boats that reach me are not just being passed through this board.
We meet people in harbours and anchorages too , and it seems to be an unremitting flood about flaws , weaknesses and below average quality of this generation of boats. Going from applying less polyester/fibre on the hull , using low grade stainless steel , poorly finished construction and so on.
But when the steering of a new boat breaks down it's not the responsability of the agent or dealer , that reflects straight to the yard I would think . In this case Jeanneau.
I'm sure other makes have their own problems to tackle , they are in the race aswell.

Regards

[rxc]

Sailbleau,

I had a very serious steering failure that I believe was the fault of the commissioning dealer, because they did not set up the autopilot properly. I also had a number of other problems that should not have existed, if the commissioning dealer had done his job properly. And one problem related to "cleanliness" that probably occurred at the Jeanneau factory. The autopilot connection issue here sounds like an adjustment that was not done properly, by either the factory or by the installing dealer. It needs to be understood and corrected, not just reconnected to work till it fails again.

I sympathize with audacity - this is a very expensive purchase, and one expects it to perform better, especially the safety-related functions. I would advise every new owner to try to watch the entire boat commissioning process, if they can, and it would also be helpful if Jeanneau would publish a commissioning checklist for both the dealer and the new owner, and provide the owner with a copy of both of them. Some new car dealers now do this. Some people even advise having a professional survey done before delivery.

Since a purchase like this is not a frequent event, it is also important for buyers to read web sites like this to see what problems people are encountering, and ask about them at delivery. We should really thank Malcolm for providing this very important resource to all of us. I know that sites like this did not exist when I bought my first two boats, and I would really have benefited if they had.

Audacity, go back to your dealer, and contact the Jeanneau national office about your problems. I think I met the head of the US operations at the Jeanneau rally in Scotland a few years ago, and he was incredibly attentive to feedback from customers, and it seems like he wanted to help. I think they will respond if you approach them without too much rancor - you are certainly upset, and justifiably so, but don't overplay it.

Also, think of this as a learning experience for big-boat sailing. <g> You are getting some lessons about how your boat works, so that when, 10 years from now, you have something else go wrong, you will be able to deal with it.

[abgreenbank]

I am not sure that you can say its the quality of the boats, the components come from top quality suppliers, are the instruments autopilot mast and rigging on a jeanneau any less quality than on a much more expensive boat? its just the attention to detail in the installation, most of my issues are not poor quality parts, its poor quality assembly, probably using less skilled labour. Jeanneau can buy parts cheaper than most and can, due to mass production techniques build them cheaper. They even have some of the best design and testing facilities that small manufacturers just dream of, as a result a boat may appear to be more lightly built etc but one can be assured that they dont use the , that looks ok make it 10% stronger just in case.

I was told at the end of the production line the boat goes to 'the wall' for quality testing and rectification , mine certainly had dozens of red marker pen  marks to indicate what needed to be rectified, but this obviously wasnt enough.

Have the sales picked up without the similar growth in staff leading to corners being cut? or the staff recruited not well enough trained. I was told by a dealer that the worst time for problems was 2007-8 the year pre financial meltdown when sales were at a peak.
I have found quite a few instances of things like a stainless steel screws that snaped on installation and another just being inserted on top, you only see the problem when you try to remove the offending panel.

You have to expect defects on delivery, its the time and manner in which these are delt with thats important. Im sure the dealers are annoyed as the customers in the way Jeanneau hides behind its Warranty program, Pascal is the man with the cheque book he needs to start signing a few more!

Using media may be a contencious issue but in my experience if one customer has a problem, your not the first, i have taken my car to a garage a few times with a major fault after reading about how common it was on the internet to be told by the garage, 'oh we have never seen that before'.

Yanmar were actually interested when i told them about the water in fuel alarm, in may june i met 3 new jeanneaus with the same problem on 4JH4 te engines, they even thought a service bulletin has been released be found it hadnt, so told me they would issue one, surprise surprise on the newer engines jeanneau installs the fuel filter on the bulkhead not the engine and fault dissapears!
its not the quality of the part its the installation, Yanmar tests its enginges, not how different manufacturers decide to install them. I was told that this engine only seems to have this problem in a Jeanneau, so why was something not done? It has on the 4jh5.

Jeanneau are aware that the panel in the lazertte that stops the contents of the lazerrte fouling the steering gear came lose on my boat and was found in the steering gear and I had had a major hardover via the autopilot but have any investigatory questions followed, no. Maybe we havnt had a reasonable time priod for Jeanneau to respond.

rgds
Ab

[Anwen (Deep Joy)]

To go back to the original post, is it possible that the problems arise from the commissioning process rather than the factory? In Europe, most of the boats that come from the factory have the keel and rudder(s) installed, but I have seen lots of photos of Jeanneaus in Australia and New Zealand that are shipped from the factory without the keel and rudder(s) fitted in order to make a more compact shipping package. Is this the case in the Pacific NW of the USA? If so, then the steering mechanism will have to be assembled at the commissioning yard and linked to the rudders. If this isn't done correctly, then the situations described could arise, but aren't necessarily the result of poor design or build at the factory, but poor workmanship at the yard.

Anwen was our second new boat, our first being an SO32 in 2004. As a result of our experiences the first time round, I expected to have minor problems with Anwen, but was allowed by the yard to be involved in the commissioning, so I could satisfy myself that everything was done properly, and become familiar with the boat. As a result, most of the hardware was trouble free, but we still experienced some issues with the electronics, that took time to troubleshoot and rectify. I don't think that Jeanneau are any worse than the other production builders, and talking to other boat owners leads me to think that they may in fact be better than many other brands. However, the quality of the commissioning can make a big difference to the subsequent reliability and owner satisfaction.

[MartyB]

Boats here in the NW US or SW Canada/BC will be generally speaking, shipped here via trailer, with out keel and rudder(s) attached. My best guess would be, the commissioning yard screwed up. Be that the MSC yard in Anacortes, or who the BC dealer uses up that way to put things together.

I would be squawking at them vs Jeanneau itself.

Marty

[rxc]

If boats are delivered as Marty says, I would suspect the dealer, rather than Jeanneau. One would think that dealers would be particularly careful about stuff like steering, but I seem to remember hearing about a very large catamaran that was lost off the east coast of the US this past spring during its maiden voyage because the tiller arms had been attached to the rudder stock with set screws(!).

I was the second owner of my boat, but I don't think that the original owner ever sailed it. It only had 100 hours on the engine, after 3 years in service, and it was not possible to unfurl the jib because the fairlead to the furler was not set up properly.

I bought the boat from the dealer who originally sold and commissioned it, and it came back to bite him, because the surveyor determined that there was a blockage in the fuel line, which the dealer had to correct before we closed the deal. He got back at me, though, by taking one of the propane tanks for himself.