New Boat Copper coat ?

[iancymru]

Just wondering if anybody has copper coat anti foul applied to a new boat as trying to decide if it worth paying the extra for on a new boat working on the premiss if I was going to get it perhaps nows the time been told about £600 extra instead of regular anti foul.

[MalcolmP]

In my view well worth the investment now. I had our 2008 boat copper-coated from new and every year have been very glad that I have not had to suffer either the horrible job of anti-fouling and releasing lots of nasties into the environment.

That said it is not perfect - you can still expect to get waterline weed growth and the boat really needs to be slipped at least once per year for light cleaning. I have just hauled out after 2 years afloat and we had barnacle growth on the parts of the hull and the keel. However easy to clean off.

You also need to make sure the coppercoat is applied by someone who knows how to do it. I saw that at Swansea they have a guy that has done an apparently good job on another 33i as well as the J53 so I think that should be OK. In our case the yard (not Swansea) put the first few coats on too thick, so there was "curtaining" wave drips due to the weight of the copper, which took a lot of hand sanding (by the yard) and more coats applied to get a fair surface.  The coppercoat also needs to be periodically scoured when you haul out, I had previously just used a kitchen green type scourer - but my new yard think I was being too gentle and a rub down with extra fine wet dry is really needed to ensure fresh copper is exposed.

Make sure that they also do the very bottom of the keel - it is a fiddle job, which my original yard decided not to do and didn't tell me either - expensive and difficult to do afterwards

Finally I do like the idea of another epoxy barrier coat that the coppercoat provides to keep the hull dry as we tend to keep the boat afloat for long periods.

[Anwen (Deep Joy)]

I can only echo Malcolm's comments. We had Anwen CopperCoated (in Swansea) as part of the commissioning process, and in my view it was well worth it. Our 379 was a bit more complicated by having a lift keel, which necessitated the boat being jacked up as high as possible to get the plate dropped enough to CopperCoat inside the slot in the main keel. However, this was managed very well by Wraymarine, and at the end of our second season, the results have been good so far.

I know that a lot of new boats are epoxied before antifouling as protection against osmosis, so I don't see any downsides or risks by going straight for CopperCoat, and I think that in the long run, the higher initial cost is more than offset by the elimination of buying conventional anti foul every year.

In Swansea, virtually every new Jeanneau is CopperCoated - at least 3 x 379's, a 42DS, a 409 and the 53. So far, nobody has had a problem.

[dslittle]

As above. Just gone back in the water after a week out. After the pressure wash the hull was as clean as anything - five years after the Coppercoat was applied. On lift out, there was only slime which came off easily. One or two very small areas to patch up (took 30 mins) and ready to launch again. I reckon that it has paid for itself already in the cost of anti foul - the savings in time are immeasurable... Well worth it.

[iancymru]

Thanks for you responses, they all sound very positive, I like the idea of the extra protective barrier but was worried incase I had to sand it down every year as that could be as bigger job as antifouling. I think ale the critical thing is a professional job to start and by the sounds of things Swansea seem to be well practiced. With all that copper is there any down sides with electrolysis on dissimilar metals I wonder.

[MickeyB]

Sorry to slightly hijack - does anyone know if copper coat works in med waters (Malta?).

I had heard that it doesn't like warm waters that much.

Thanks in advance.

[ianpowolny]

We had Affinity CopperCoated this season and sail 1900 miles. It definitely works for us. We had to have the hull stripped back first and retro applying was expensive but since we are on a long voyage we decided it was easier to high pressure wash than anti-foul in a foreign port.

I should be able to say how it works in warmer climes next season if the plan comes together. Maybe Hoppy will know.

[sailbleu]

I have experimented with the diy coppercoat , mixed epoxy resin and copper oxyde and found the result to be a dissaster. I've posted pictures of it some time ago , use the search engine and type in " coppercoat "
So my advise , ...don't do it !
The real stuff however , made with waterbased epoxy has proven to be effective.
I'm docked next to a UK sailingyacht that had the coppercoat done , well he did it himself but bought the good stuff , and is very pleased with ithe result.

Some side thoughts though , i'm really not reading any messages of long term results anywhere.
The original coppercoat is very expensive , even when you put it on yourself.
After my (diy) copercoat drama I turned back to my Hempel antifouling , bought a 20 liter tin ( 40kg) and rolled it onto my 40 footer . 3 layers.
By experience I know that it will get me atleast , ATLEAST ! , 3 years on the road . Occasionnaly rubbing it down very slightly with a kitchen sponge to get some slime off here and there and force some fresh antifouling to the surface. Remember I have put on 3 very very thick layers.
It paid 150 euro for the tin - which is I admit very cheap - and did the job , on my own , in one day.
Do the math , compare the price of coppercoat with that of regular antifouling.
So depending on the lifespan of the CC it can swing both ways.
If the CC does do what it says , 10 years clean , you'll be better off with the CC
All depend on you sailing profile , howmany miles will you be doing annually ?
Genuine CC manufacturers do not give any references or analyses on the miles >>> lifespan issue .
If that could be thrown into the equation things might look different.

Regards



EDIT :
Just read Mickey's question
I'm docked about 50 miles north of Malta , next to the Englishman I talked about. He told me a few weeks ago before flying home again he' s pleased with result.

[iancymru]

Cheers for replys its very confusing I suppose the main reasons I would go for copper coat is the ease of maintenance i.e. just power wash once a year and it an extra barrier on the hull, but the down side for me would be if  I had to sand it down every.
Im ex merchant navy and some of the companies I worked for when antifouling the ships used 3 coats each a different colour so you could tell how it was wearing. I also wonder if the copper coat is not doing what it says on the tin can you just anti foul over it anyway. 

[electricmonk]

we coppercoated electric monk when she was new in 2003, have been out of the water twice since then, no fouling problems, (just wish someone would invent something that's works on propellers) a very sound investment in my opinion. Yes it works in the med, no it wont conduct electricity, make sure its not humid when you apply it.

[Seagem]

I can vouch for the longevity of copper coat. My friend and I did his yacht and it lasted 13 years before he decided it was time to do it again. His yacht had not been out of the water for the last four years but after a jet wash to get rid of the slime it was as clean as a whistle. He merely had to abrade the existing Coppercoat to make a key and then applied another three coats.

Like Sailbleu, I have experimented with a DIY mix with dubious results. It has had weed around the water line this year and it has some barnacles as well but both come off easily. When the time comes I will do it with proper Coppercoat.

The advantage of doing it from new is that you won't have the awful job of removing all the old anti foul that must be removed prior to using Coppercoat. If you really wanted (but I cannot see why you would) you can cover Coppercoat with traditional anti foul.

I believe that there has not been any problem with regard to electrolysis.

[sailbleu]

Oct 16, 2014 22:55:38 GMT Seagem said:

I

I believe that there has not been any problem with regard to electrolysis.

At the time I was CCing my hull a professional warned me -or better yet , advised me - not to touch the bronze through-hulls with the CC in order not to conduct electricity.
But now I'm just repeating what was said to me.
But again how long -..how many miles - does it takes before you get through those 3 very thin layers . Becuse of what I read they are very thin layers no ?
Don't get me wrong , I' m not breaking down the genuine CC , 10 years is the projected lifespam but under what conditions ?
I know it's expensive , I was given a quote but that was some years ago before the Chinese where buying up all the worlds resources , so what is the rate thesedays to CC an average sailing yacht ?
Any clue someone ?

Regards

[singoviv]

What's the downside in not pulling the boat out annually for inspection?

[dslittle]

Oct 16, 2014 8:08:15 GMT iancymru said:

Cheers for replys its very confusing I suppose the main reasons I would go for copper coat is the ease of maintenance i.e. just power wash once a year and it an extra barrier on the hull, but the down side for me would be if  I had to sand it down every.
Im ex merchant navy and some of the companies I worked for when antifouling the ships used 3 coats each a different colour so you could tell how it was wearing. I also wonder if the copper coat is not doing what it says on the tin can you just anti foul over it anyway. 

Over the last five years, I have never had to rub down the CC after it has been pressure washed. The hardest thing that I have had to endure has been watching the yard pressure wash the slime of the hull... I did speak it them on the Stand at the Boat Show and they said that there was no need to abrade the CC to make it work.

[iancymru]

Cheers again for the replies its all sounding very positive, I just received a quote for £800 difference in price for a new SO33i which would have been anti fouled conventionally. 
I appreciate you would have to lift the boat out fairly regularly anyway to check anodes and clean the prop. I raised the question on electrolysis as growth on the prop affects the performance and wondered why they do not CC the prop. On my last boat I tried lots of different things on the prop from polishing and lanolin and outboard type anti foul to no avail, but actually found that the Seajet triple pack anti foul for props was pretty good and lasted the longest (nearly got 12 months).

[electricmonk]

Sailbleu ask your professional to use a megger and test the electrical continuity of coppercoat, as far as I know it has an infinite resistance, I have been unsuccessful in trying to pass a current through it; that said I have found CC wont stick very well to bronze through hulls.

There are boats out there that have had just one 3 coat treatment and are still going strong after 15 years, and it does NOT erode.

The secret to success with coppercoat is preparation, you MUST break the glaze on the gelcoat or it wont stay on, 240grit and an orbital sander is the tool of choice. At least two people are required to apply it, one to roller it on and one to mix it - constantly. Humidity MUST be low. When you apply it don't try and build up layer thickness quickly, it will all end up on the roller! just roll it on and move on to the next bit of dry hull. The first coat looks like nothing has happened don't worry just press on getting round the hull. It goes gluey very quickly so don't mix up more than a litre at a time. The mixers arms will wear out quite quickly so be methodical in your application so you can plan breaks and know where you left off. We CC our hull in 2003 and its still OK we have never abraded it, but I do dive under the boat and clean the prop with a scraper and check anodes (they take around 5 years to diminish by 50% bow thruster anodes don't dissolve at all).


The downside of not hauling the boat is the rigger and the engineer loose out because the boat is held by water and supported all over, the yard losses out because it cant charge you for a liftout you don't need. But you will probably need to keep more of eye on warps and fenders. You could even get a sail on a sunny winters day with a watery sun flat sea and jolly breeze. Very few downsides.

[jdl01]

Out here in the pacific northwest, we have to haul annually to replace zincs on saildrives and props,
clear saildrive intakes of uglies, repaint saildrives with non cuprous antifouling and grease feathering props. If one is up for all this work, why not throw on another new coat of antifouling [ablative]? The cost is about $200.

[MartyB]

I was about to say, in 3-5 yrs, ALL use of copper bottom paint will be illegal here in Wa st in the puget sound region. So ablative or hard, it will not matter. ALong with it is a 10K USD fine if you clean an ablative bottom paint in the water by rubbing off debris etc. Now motoring/sailing down the water and it falls off...oh well......something is amis here.....

I personally have to redo zincs/aluminum on shaft etc about every 6 months. Usually with a diver. Pull every two yrs or so for bottom paint. Sometimes one can get 3 if in a brackish water area. If not, 18-30 months for a haulout and repaint.

marty

[sailbleu]

Oct 18, 2014 0:10:53 GMT MartyB said:

I was about to say, in 3-5 yrs, ALL use of copper bottom paint will be illegal here in Wa st in the puget sound region. So ablative or hard, it will not matter. ALong with it is a 10K USD fine if you clean an ablative bottom paint in the water by rubbing off debris etc. Now motoring/sailing down the water and it falls off...oh well......something is amis here.....

I personally have to redo zincs/aluminum on shaft etc about every 6 months. Usually with a diver. Pull every two yrs or so for bottom paint. Sometimes one can get 3 if in a brackish water area. If not, 18-30 months for a haulout and repaint.

marty

What about foreign boats with a CC hull Marty , will they be in for the same treat ?

Regards

[electricmonk]

before we all get carried away with regulations have look at this information, non ablative copper antifouling products like copper coat are not banned anywhere yet or anywhere soon. in fact the latest scientific evidence is that they present very little (immeasurable) environmental impact i.e. no environmental impact attributable to copper based hard antifouling.

www.copperantifouling.com/copper/index.html

[MartyB]

sailblue,

I would assume if you showed up for a visit, the locals would not bother you. BUT, if you went to repaint while here, you would not be able to get a copper based paint. Boats with either x feet, or tonnage do not have this issue. It seems to be aimed at personal craft only under around 60-65'. If a person were to keep the boat here, with a copper base, one has to paint over it with non copper, or remove and repaint.

Then again, the full extent of the law has not shown up, so what I understand the law/rule to be may change in the future. But there are a lot of paint manufactures coming out with paints that are non copper based, more algaecide based, one has a paint layer like a shark so hard shelled creatures can not attach, etc.

Comes into one of those to a degree, there is no known shown effects of the copper paint, but some greenies locally are pushing for these types of things. Meanwhile, Victoria BC is putting out almost 100% of its sewage out into the straight of Juan de Fuca untreated....which to me is probably a bigger threat. Some other cities towns do the same north of the border. Now of course, I am into some different political differences between countries, people etc. So in the end, which is correct, which is not......under which circumstance is one better than the other......

Some I personally agree with, others, an issue gone overboard because it was easier to deal with.

Marty