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Post by so36idavid on Jul 30, 2014 22:12:59 GMT
Greetings,
I have a 36i 2007 which has a Yanmar 3YM30. It has the stock Hitachi alternator which is marked as 60A. After adding a battery monitor I noticed that it typically pushes out about 30A. I believe that this is because the regulator is a dumb device which charges at a flat 13.2V. So the batteries will only accept so much current at that voltage. Can anyone confirm this behavior or has anyone seen more than 30A for a significant amount of time? I guess I should add that I have a 200AH AGM bank that I typically drain by no more than 100Ah.
I spoke with the local Yanmar tech and he says that the Hitachi alternator is internally regulated and this can't be disabled for use by a smart regulator. So I'm looking at replacing the alternator with maybe a Balmar alternator (suggestions?). One thing which gives me pause is that there is a wiring harness coming off of the back of the alternator. I don't have a clue where the harness is going but the tech says that the tachometer reads off of the flywheel and not the alternator. If the Hitachi alternator is internally regulated, what is the harness that's coming off of the back?
Thx
David
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Post by mikebz on Jul 31, 2014 9:47:04 GMT
I've just added a Sterling A2B regulator to the stock M2020D in our SO32, for the same reasons as you cite. We have 200Ah of AGM house bank. With the batteries partially discharged (maybe down to 80% full) the standard setup was only getting 13.2V at tickover, rising to maybe 13.8V with revs, and only seeing amps in the teens going into the bank. With the A2B I get 14.5V at tickover and approx 40A at this state of discharge (haven't discharged further to see if we get more). It has made a massive difference to how quickly the batteries charge. Also it goes into 'float' mode (~13.8V) when it thinks the batteries are full so you get the benefit of quick charging (14.5V) without frying the batteries once they are full. No alternator mods required.
It's not a cheap solution, and if you trawl the forums you'll find some anchor-esque discussions about the merits of various add-on regulators, but I'm very happy with it.
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Post by Full Circle on Aug 4, 2014 2:07:10 GMT
I have the Hitachi 80a alternator and the Sterling B2B. I have seen peak charging so far of 57amps. The Sterling unit works, but does not like backfeed from solar panel voltages - it shows a high output volts warning. Still works though.
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Post by Tafika II on Aug 4, 2014 17:28:01 GMT
When we commission the boat in 2007, we upgraded to a Balmar 130A alternator with DuoCharge Regulator. We had a failure after about a year with the regulator which was replaced free of charge by Balmar. Works flawlessly and has no interference with the 270 watts solar panels using the Blue Sky SB2000e Controller.
One added bonus is the original factory alternator is our spare backup. No bracket modifications were needed to upgrade.
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Post by ForGrinsToo on Aug 4, 2014 22:05:33 GMT
Brent,
From what I read, you must have a solenoid installed to allow more than 30A to go to the starting battery. Is that right?
Everybody,
Also, it would appear that using the Balmar Duo Charge, one could attach both the shorepower charger and the alternator (and possibly a solar panel with controller) directly to the house battery (ok, through isolation switches) and eliminate all the combiner/splitter wiring that is installed in my 36i. This just seems too simple and too easy to work. What am I missing?
I should note that I have just installed two Lifeline AGM (GPL-4CT,6V in series) to give me 220 Ah (they are about 6 mm too tall for the 36i battery box) along with a Victron 702 monitor.
Geoff
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Post by Tafika II on Aug 5, 2014 17:18:14 GMT
Hi Goeff!
As far as I know, the Balmar DuoCharge Regulator. acts as a controller for what is allowed to the batteries. In my case normal charge rate is 13.2VDC and max is 14.2VDC. Since I did not install the upgrade, I will have to look at the arrangement with the charger, solar panels and shore power. I can look at the schematic that's on the boat next week. I'll see what I can find, but the Balmar system is really that simple.
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Post by pbunning on Aug 6, 2014 17:55:29 GMT
Yanmar electrical_2.pdf (13.72 KB) I attach typical electrical schematic of the alternator circuit (outputs from alternator E, L, R, bat). The internal regulator only maintains the alternator output voltage and it does this by adjusting the current to the rotor coil at point F. An external smart regulator can be fitted, but this involves opening up the alternator and soldering a wire to the rotor coil brush 'F'. There are a number of regulators on the market - I happen to have fitted an Adverc unit to my boat. Further information available from them - www.adverc.co.uk/batterymanagement/advercs-marine-document-packOn my 33i, the tachometer reads the frequency directly from the alternator - this is a separate output on the alternator and not effected by installation of the smart regulator.
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Post by mikebz on Aug 6, 2014 19:36:10 GMT
An external smart regulator can be fitted, but this involves opening up the alternator and soldering a wire to the rotor coil brush 'F'. As I said above, there are smart regulator/charger type products which do not require opening up the alternator. I'm sure there are pros & cons but the (expensive option) A2B works very well for me. |
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Post by ForGrinsToo on Aug 6, 2014 23:02:02 GMT
Jeez, Mike. There's a lot of blood spilled in that Practical Boatowner forum. I am wondering how you concluded the A2B was the way to go, after all that, and if your A2B is actually in parallel with (piggy-backed on)the internal regulator as installed. In my initial reading of Sterling's ad, I thought he was taking the regulated output from the alternator. Which you could but you'd give up amps.
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Post by mikebz on Aug 7, 2014 9:24:55 GMT
There were a number of reasons, some of which I forget now, but I think the main ones were: - Simple to fit, no need to remove/split/modify/refit the alternator, I was short of time
- Built-in split charge for starter and house batteries
- Very simple to revert to the built-in regulator if the A2B goes wrong
Yes there is a lot of blood-letting on forums about these things (as with anchors - well maybe not quite as much as with anchors!). A lot of blood-letting is done by people who don't understand how something works and therefore conclude that it can't possibly work. |
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Post by teodoro on Jul 16, 2016 17:47:14 GMT
Hi.
one question on installation ofSterling A2B om the 36i. Did you also connect the ignition feed or did it work correctly without it? I just installed it but it does not always start up with the engine.
Best
teo
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Post by ForGrinsToo on Jul 18, 2016 1:01:32 GMT
Greetings, I have a 36i 2007 which has a Yanmar 3YM30. It has the stock Hitachi alternator which is marked as 60A. After adding a battery monitor I noticed that it typically pushes out about 30A. I believe that this is because the regulator is a dumb device which charges at a flat 13.2V. So the batteries will only accept so much current at that voltage. Can anyone confirm this behavior or has anyone seen more than 30A for a significant amount of time? I guess I should add that I have a 200AH AGM bank that I typically drain by no more than 100Ah. I spoke with the local Yanmar tech and he says that the Hitachi alternator is internally regulated and this can't be disabled for use by a smart regulator. So I'm looking at replacing the alternator with maybe a Balmar alternator (suggestions?). One thing which gives me pause is that there is a wiring harness coming off of the back of the alternator. I don't have a clue where the harness is going but the tech says that the tachometer reads off of the flywheel and not the alternator. If the Hitachi alternator is internally regulated, what is the harness that's coming off of the back? Thx David It occurs to me, David, without studying the schematics and the hardware: you have a 60A alternator. You have two battery banks. Are you putting 30 into each bank? How is that split/apportioned? I don't see anything in the circuit diagram except a relay that is supposedly for "engine safety". So perhaps the "less full" bank takes the most current. But I only monitor (Victron) the house bank. I have, but haven't installed, a "Pro Split R" device which is supposed to delver all charging current to the house batteries first, then to the start battery when the house are full. Geoff |
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Post by so36idavid on Jul 19, 2016 0:35:10 GMT
Geoff,
My boat has a relay that parallels the house and engine batteries when the engine is running. When the engine is turned off the relay opens and the banks are isolated.
The current that flows out of the alternator will flow into whichever battery is most discharged. In theory it might flow not only from the alternator but also from the more-charged battery to the lesser. In practice the discharged battery is almost always the house bank and current flows out of the alternator into both batteries. Since the stock Hitachi alternator is internally regulated both batteries will be brought up to float voltage gated by the ability of the house bank to accept charge at the voltage that it sees.
B.t.w. I'm not sure I like the idea of charging the house bank first. If the house bank never gets fully up to charge you will progressively drain the starting bank until you can no longer start the engine.
David
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Post by allegria on Jul 25, 2016 5:23:31 GMT
Hello,
I had a Balmar ARS-5 MULTI-STAGE VOLTAGE REGULATOR installed in 2013 on my 2010 SO36i. The electrician had to get the alternator modified by a car mechanic. I didn't like the idea that the alternator had to be modified and the fact that you cannot reverse that mod, however, it has worked perfectly ever since...
Cheers,
Allegria
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