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Post by ianpowolny on Jul 8, 2014 20:55:29 GMT
The filter cover on our fresh water pump cracked today and we now have no way of pressurising the fresh water system. We are in Roscoff, France. Does anyone know of a Johnson SPX Pump parts supplier in this area of France? We could get the ferry back to Plymouth so if someone knows of a Plymouth supplier that would also be useful. We'd take the filter and or a pump. WPS 5.0 12v. Ian   |
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Post by Zanshin on Jul 8, 2014 23:51:44 GMT
I know almost exactly what you are going through, the same thing happened to me. My first fix was to use saran-wrap on the inside of the pump assembly, that didn't last long. Then I epoxied the plastic cover to keep it from leaking, that lasted a couple of days. I couldn't get the parts in the Caribbean and finally ended up removing the whole filter assembly temporarily and replacing it with a plastic tube held in place with hose-clamps; that lasted until yesterday, when I received the replacement filter assembly I'd ordered via the US! The quick-release system makes it a bit more work to just put a hose with clamps in, but it isn't a huge effort. The danger is that you don't have a filter to protect the pump. In my case I make water via the watermaker so know that my source is clean and without big chunks that might break the pump.  |
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Post by Quiddle on Jul 9, 2014 6:43:46 GMT
I've also had this problem and repaired it with superglue. If this is not feasible then remove the filter from the system which is fairly coarse. See this post: jeanneau.proboards.com/post/15856 |
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Post by ianpowolny on Jul 9, 2014 16:34:35 GMT
I've gone through the epoxy solution and also ordered two filter covers and a full pump from Aquafax in Luton. Delivery is expensive but should be here tomorrow - 24 hours after order.
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Post by Peter123 on Jul 28, 2014 21:11:14 GMT
I've had two of these break and I've heard of other people having the same trouble. I wouldn't buy a new cover. I plumbed in a different make of filter.
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Post by zofiasailing on Aug 23, 2014 0:52:07 GMT
Ian This seems to be a very common issue. As per our other posts, we gave up on replacing the filter units after 4-5 units and made a simple bypass using garden reticulation parts (see picture). The original part lasted about 4 years. After that, none of the replacements lasted 6 months. Is this a manufacturing problem or is it the pump gradually working with higher pressures? Would love to know what's gone wrong. All gluing efforts - epoxy, super glue sikaflex, gaffer tape and combinations were useless. Zanshin makes a good point about clean water if dispensing with the filter. We have had a reliable supply of scheme water or rain water up 'til now so the filter could be dispensed with. When we get a bit more off the beaten track we might need to fit a unit back in. The overall experience has left us a bit nervous and we always now cary several litres of drinking water in bottles and at least 1 Gerry of fresh water plus a means of drawing water out of the tanks other than the electric pumps. Murphy always ensures this stuff happens at inconvenient times! We know how to work around the problem - replace/ by-pass, etc... but is this issue really part of a bigger problem? Zofia 42SO DS  |
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Post by ianpowolny on Aug 23, 2014 10:35:17 GMT
I'm going to the Southampton Boat Show and will discuss the issue with Jeanneau reps there. Maybe Mr Stromberg wil turn up and I put the issue to him directly. I wonder if there would be any mileage in collating all the data we have from the pro board and speaking directly to Johnson? Ian
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Post by ameliaalex on Nov 7, 2014 15:10:19 GMT
I have the same issue with our 2012 44i Salty Ginger. I also just recently lost the accumulator on the other pressure side of the system as well. I do suspect the pulse and hammering from the pump as the root cause (Jeanneau happily replaced this on warranty). The covers are available for a little over $5USD plus postage, so for now I will just order several and include it in the operational costs. We are very pleased with Salty Ginger after commissioning her in Les Sable D'Ollone and sailing down the Atlantic coast and over to the Caribbean. This has been our only issue thus far (knock o wood). Jeanneau support did say to: only tighten the cover tight enough to stop water leaking. I will try this out and see how long I can get out the replacement. Perhaps compressing the o-ring as little as possible will help absorb the pulse from the pump and extend the cover life. With a family of 4 on board, we pump a lot of water and with the planned Spectra water maker... Fair winds, Graham s/v Salty Ginger P.S. The cover part number is: 01-36012 PO2 |
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Post by MalcolmP on Nov 7, 2014 16:08:40 GMT
I have the same issue with our 2012 44i Salty Ginger. I also just recently lost the accumulator on the other pressure side of the system as well. I do suspect the pule and hammering from the pump as the root cause (Jeanneau happily replaced this on warranty). The covers are available for a little over $5USD plus postage, so for now I will just order several and include it in the operational costs. We are very pleased with Salty Ginger after commissioning her in Les Sable D'Ollone and sailing down the Atlantic coast and over to the Caribbean. This has been our only issue thus far (knock o wood). Jeanneau support did say to: only tighten the cover tight enough to stop water leaking. I will try this out and see how long I can get out the replacement. Perhaps compressing the o-ring as little as possible will help absorb the pulse from the pump and extend the cover life. With a family of 4 on board, we pump a lot of water and with the planned Spectra water maker... Fair winds, Graham s/v Salty Ginger P.S. The cover part number is: 01-36012 PO2 Welcome to the forum, what a delivery trip and great first post. I was going to recommend changing to a constant pressure sensor type pump - these don't need an accumulator and I fitted one to our boat at least 5 seasons ago and it has been fantastic, no hunting and constant water in the shower etc BUT now seems they are obsolete? - maybe there were problems... www.jabscoshop.com/marine/pumps/pressurised-fresh-water-pumps/31750-0000-sensor-max-vsd-constant-pressure-water-system-pump.htm |
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Post by MalcolmP on Nov 7, 2014 16:32:03 GMT
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Post by ianpowolny on Aug 6, 2015 15:47:04 GMT
So here we are again another year on and another cracked filter lid. Luckily I bought two filters last July so fitted the second one this morning. I have emailed with Aquafax who are going to send me a replacement filter FOC. In the email trail between us they mention that most of the cracked lids they hear about are from Jeanneau boats and they have no idea how this happens to us owners. They also then mentioned over tightening. Having just fitted the last filter straight from the box I never unscrewed the lid. To my surprise I can't get the lid to loosen from the filter body and its the same for the new one fitted today. I'm leaving it all well alone until the replacement arrives. Anyone got a long term solution to this issue? Ian  |
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Post by Tafika II on Aug 6, 2015 17:32:54 GMT
None cracked but does anyone know what material they are molded in? polycarbonate shouldn't crack if that what they are molded from.
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Post by ianpowolny on Aug 7, 2015 14:51:57 GMT
All, I have been very impressed with Aquafax's response to my cracked filter problem especially Bryan Page who has tried his best to help get the filter cover off without breaking the filter. Well done Aquafax and Bryan. Ian
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Post by sailby2 on Aug 7, 2015 19:59:13 GMT
I was readying our boat last year for sailing to The Bahamas for the winter season. After reading this post, I purchased 2 new covers as spares from West Marine. I had to buy the entire filter casing/screen and cover but the cost wasn't bad and the peace of mind was worth it. We got all the way back after 7 months of cruising and were heading up the last stretch of waterway and my wife pops up from the companionway. She tells me the fresh water pump will not stop running. When I pull back the cushion from the pump area, sure enough I see the cover lying there in 2 pieces. Thanks to the Jeanneau Owners Forum and my spare, we were up and running again in no time flat!
It's not a permanent solution but the lesson here is that "it's not if, but when it will fail." If you have one and do not intend to take it out of the system, carry spares.
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Post by jeremyr on Aug 7, 2015 22:31:21 GMT
Had the identical problem twice before and replaced with new caps. Unfortunately after a couple cap changes the o-ring got damaged, resulting in a slow drip and the possibility of air leaking into the intake. The new caps don't come with o-rings, but fortunately I was able to reseal the tiny torn flap back in place with non-toxic valve grease. I had purchased complete strainer assemblies instead of just caps, as that's what West Marine stocked. Unfortunately the model West Marine carries is 09-24652-02-CN, which has the output line in the wrong location, so only the cap is useful. I also found that the o-ring on that is slightly smaller. On the original strainer 09-24653-02-CN (or identical 09-24653-03) the o-ring sits in a deep groove near the end of the black plastic housing and the cap slides over it as it screws on (see attached pic). In the spare Universal strainer #24652 the o-ring sits on the very end of the housing (thus the smaller diameter) and the cap presses against it at the very end of being screwed on. I don't know if the o-ring is just different between the two models or if Johnson pump recently redesigned both. I have ordered a 09-24653-02-CN from Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007VGZYEI) and will report back on what I get. Either way, it is IMPORTANT to lubricate o-rings during assembly. Lube allows the surfaces to slide against the o-ring without microscopically bunching up the surface of the rubber. Otherwise it takes excessive pressure to seal, increasing the probability of a fractured cover. Lube also helps seal any tiny gaps. By the way, I noticed that every cracked cover I have seen failed across the mold injection point at the middle of the cover. I have some slight experience with molded plastic parts as an engineer and it looks to me like the manufacturer potentially got a batch of flawed parts and it will take some number of years to get all of them out of the system. Until then I suggest * Always lubricate the o-rings * Tighten VERY lightly * Carry multiple spares  Attachment Deleted |
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Post by seattle519 on Aug 8, 2015 5:29:11 GMT
None cracked but does anyone know what material they are molded in? polycarbonate shouldn't crack if that what they are molded from. We have many polycarbonate bowls throughout our manufacturing facility installed on air line water traps, pressure regulators and line oilers. We've had dozens fail over 28 years. I have also noticed spider cracks in many bolted polycarbonate sheets. Polycarbonate is extremely tough but does not withstand sustained pressure well. That is one of the reasons why they use Acrylic in aquarium windows. The new aquarium exhibit in Seattle has an Acrylic window that is 12.5" x 20' x 40' holding back 125,000 gallons of water. No stress cracks in eight years which I appreciate every time I'm inside looking out. Replace the filter with a more robust unit or have spare covers on board. Perhaps Jeanneau runs at a higher pressure? |
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Post by ianpowolny on Aug 8, 2015 16:01:06 GMT
Here's a photo of the Johnson specification from the side of the delivery box. I note the lid is made from acrylic. The associated pump starts at 20psi and shut down at 30psi. No indication of the pressure rating of the filter. Ian  |
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Post by jeremyr on Aug 8, 2015 16:32:54 GMT
The strainer assy is on the intake of the pump so there is no pressure on it at all. The only forces come from the tight fit of the cover or from freezing if in a winter climate. That's partly why I concluded it was molding flaws in the acrylic.
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Post by gazney on May 16, 2017 5:50:47 GMT
There is a (brass bodied) check valve between the tank selection manifold and the water strainer to prevent water flowing back to the tank(s).
If the pump suction valve(s) leak, the strainer can become pressurised which, over time, can cause the cover to crack. However, installing the check valve between the pump and strainer will prevent this.
Notes:
- Although the check valve has a small spring to reseat the valve lid, it has been orientated as original to allow gravity to assist.
- It is good practice when bunkering water to isolate the tank being filled on the tank selection manifold.
- I used Hep2O pipe and inserts; the inserts are stainless steel and have a larger bore than other manufacturer's plastic equivalents which should improve flow.
This modification was recently carried out and only time will determine whether it will prevent the strainer cover cracking.
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Post by jeremyr on May 16, 2017 7:25:22 GMT
I don't see how the scenario you describe could cause the strainer to become pressurized. I do not see any case that could. Perhaps you can try explaining differently?
Sorry if I am being obtuse.
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Post by gazney on May 16, 2017 7:57:25 GMT
There is an accumulator (a metal cylinder with a bladder inside pre-charged with air pressure) on the discharge side of the pump to maintain pressure on the water system and prevent the pump cycling (water cannot be compressed). If the pump valves leak after the pump stops, the suction side of the system will also be pressurised including the strainer body/cover.  By relocating the check valve after the strainer and before the pump, the strainer will no longer be under pressure.  I had to purchase a new in-line strainer and used the threaded 1/2" KlickTite™ fittings to connect it into the system. I hope the above makes it clearer. |
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Post by jeremyr on May 18, 2017 4:36:57 GMT
Yes, that clarifies it. I have not performed any analysis of the forces involved, but looking at the 3 cracked strainers I had and how/where the o-ring engaged, I concluded that the magnitude and direction of the localized forces created by the o-ring were probably the dominant source of the stress responsible for the cracking. I suspect that is true even in the case where the back flow valve in the pump fails, resulting in somewhere up to 15 psi (of uniformly applied) pressure.
Note that the manufacturer redesigned the o-ring system from an axial-seal to a face-seal configuration. When I called them and spoke to a technical person, I was told they made the o-ring change in response to the cracking problems.
When I looked at what was in stock at West Marine, the in-line strainer assemblies (tubing fitting outlet) like you changed to, were all of the new face-seal design. So check and see if you may have also updated to the new o-ring design as part of your change.
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Post by MickeyB on May 18, 2017 6:19:48 GMT
I don't like it when I don't fully understand something.
Moving the flow valve to after the strainer is such a simple thing to do and solves all the problems. This is a no-brainer to me - and lots of things in the outside world must have an order to them to function.
But instead, they go and redesign the value, the face fittings, the R&D, testing, repackaging and tooling.
This means that there must be a reason for the flow valve to be before the strainer - otherwise why redesign it all?
Any thoughts?
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Post by Meshuggana on May 18, 2017 15:50:50 GMT
For those of us who have not experienced the crack....yet, do you think it would be prudent to put a hose clamp around the cap to create a compressive force which might aid in stopping the crack from forming in the first place?
Allen
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Post by gazney on May 20, 2017 8:00:53 GMT
If it helps, I'm a retired Senior Chief Engineer (Marine) with 41 years serving on merchant vessels worldwide. I've had the pleasure of sailing as crew on 'Blue Damsel', a Sun Odyssey 45DS where this issue was brought to my attention.
Yacht/shipbuilders purchase packages from suppliers to install in their vessels but don't normally have any influence over the installation layout; that is down to the builder.
Johnson pumps term for the strainer is 'pump protector' and they have two versions; in-line with female ports and angled with female inlet port and male KlickTite™ outlet fitting which attaches directly to the pump suction port, a neat and compact arrangement. However, Jeanneau were/are responsible for the plumbing layout and inserted the check valve between the manifold and strainer to prevent back flow to the tanks.
I believe (only time will tell whether I'm right) there were occasions when the pump valves may have leaked after the pump stopped causing a sudden increase in pressure on the suction side back to the check valve including the strainer. I understand the strainer acrylic cover is not designed to be pressurised and may explain the failures. Debris from the tank can pass through the strainer mesh (remove and inspect the tap aerators; both the forward cabin and galley sink taps on Blue Damsel had small pieces of grit in them) which may or may not affect the pump valve sealing.
I hope the above further clarifies my thoughts on the problem.
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