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Post by ianpowolny on Jun 12, 2014 10:40:21 GMT
We sail short handed most of the time and we are looking at adding some form of gybe protection. Anyone used either the Walder or Wichard items to control gybing? Any comments on the systems. Our main is 37m2 so the Wichard system should work and is cheaper than the Walder.
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Post by Don Reaves on Jun 12, 2014 20:26:57 GMT
I use a rescue-8, which is a piece of climbing gear. It's designed to do basically the same thing the Wichard unit does, but it's much cheaper, about $40 US. Of course, you have to supply your own line.
I've found it to be effective for my SO35, which of course has a smaller main than your 45DS. But you might at least take a look at it.
The only problem I have is where to connect it to the boom and where to tie it on deck. These issues are common with the Wichard brake.
Don
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Post by dublin on Jun 12, 2014 23:40:02 GMT
Hi Ian, we use wichard on 39DS. Works very well. Really does give smooth gybe control. Only problem is the rope they supply is too short for the 39 so would be too short for you. They claim you must use their line for it to work properly. We added a length to it soothe lone running through the wichard is their line and the extension is just used as one of the control "tails". Length would probably be ok it it was set up as a single line - which is possible.
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rm
New Member
Posts: 9
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Post by rm on Jun 13, 2014 2:21:08 GMT
We have the Wichard Gybe Easy on our 36i Performance version, with a 31 square metre mainsail. It works well when tensioned correctly. We intend to fit a clutch near one of the sheet winches to run the line to the winch for better tensioning adjustments in different conditions.
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Post by rene460 on Jun 13, 2014 9:31:15 GMT
Hi Ian,
We we have the Wichard and have found it excellent. Of course or SO30i has a much smaller sail and we use it in the lowest friction setting. We use the single line system per the instructions with a clutch near the cockpit on one side, but we don't find much need to do a lot of adjustment. I really like the double ended idea mentioned above for a larger sail, where you will use a higher friction setting and may find it necessary to do more adjusting, even if it does mean extending the rope. It works so well that the great forces you get in an uncontrolled gybe are avoided. And no moving parts to cause problems.
I hang it on the loop that is part of the upper end of vang attachment and fix the deck ends to the lower shroud anchors, one end is tied off and the other runs through a block and back to the clutch. Just like the instructions.
Can't recommend it highly enough. If you do some research on how they are made you will understand why they cost so much.
rene460
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Post by Xlnt on Jun 13, 2014 13:32:45 GMT
I have a rescue-8 and seems to work fine. Still working on finetuning the right tension. Mine is connected at the base of stansions and routed through a couple of blocks so that I can loosen or tighten it from the cockpit.
-XLNT
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Post by so40gtb on Jun 16, 2014 2:42:03 GMT
We had reasonably good luck with the Wichard unit on our former boat, a SO34.2. We kept it and installed it on our SO40, but have not had much opportunity to use it since the necessary blocks and such were mounted last season, so we don't have a good feel for optimal tension yet. For maximum effectiveness, the outboard blocks need to be forward of the boom when it is fully let out, which is hard to do on the SO40 because the toe rail is continuous, lacking openings for snatch block attachment. We route the line-ends back to the secondary winches that were added to the cabintop last year, via cheek blocks located farther forward. Whether it remains that way or additional clutches are added remains to be seen. For the SO40, another 5m of line would be helpful.
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Post by Tafika II on Jan 2, 2016 18:18:57 GMT
Don & Xint- You both use the Rescue 8 & I was winding of you might post some photos on how you have this setup. I'd appreciate it when you get a chance. Happy New Year!!!!
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Post by Damir on Jan 2, 2016 19:11:10 GMT
Hi ianpowolny Happy New Year to all
I use Walder boom brake on Jeanneau Sunshine 38 when sailing alone and I am very satisfied. I can adjust the braking - easing will boom very simply and without any danger, if you need to switch boom quickly just loosen up and know it will fly. Walder boom brake is more expensive but can regulate the braking force and loosening alone without problems. Worth the money that you put into it and recommend it to you.
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Post by vasko on Jan 2, 2016 19:27:32 GMT
I just placed a spring dumper(like the one on the mooring lines) on my main sheet which do not prevent the accidental jibe but make is a lot safer
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Post by so40gtb on Jan 22, 2016 4:04:14 GMT
Interesting idea! We have a rubber line damper that we used with a docking line on our SO34.2, which has remained in storage since we traded up to the SO40. It's probably the right size for our mainsheet, so I'll play around with rigging it as launch nears in 3 months!
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Post by sailbleu on Jan 23, 2016 5:39:26 GMT
Hi Ian, we use wichard on 39DS. Works very well. Really does give smooth gybe control. Only problem is the rope they supply is too short for the 39 so would be too short for you. They claim you must use their line for it to work properly. We added a length to it soothe lone running through the wichard is their line and the extension is just used as one of the control "tails". Length would probably be ok it it was set up as a single line - which is possible. Hi Dublin , a bit late perhaps , but as I am interested in taking this addition as a next diy project I was wondering what kind of rope you use, Obviously it was delivered with the wichard brake , but what would be - according to your guess - be the difference with an average , lets say , sheet line ? You have a 39 footer , how long is the line you use ? Any hint on the dimensions of the brake , would it be ...the bigger the better ? Thanks Regards
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Post by dublin on Jan 23, 2016 10:44:17 GMT
I will not be on the boat for another few weeks. I can give you exact dimensions then. In the meantime my set up is as follows Which are line runs through the gubeeze to a d ring on each side deck near the foot of the shrouds The line in attached to a light line. In my case this is a section I cut off the headsail furler line so approx 10mm if a remember correctly. This line goes back each side to cleat off on the quarter cleats. I usually just Have the Wichita line around the first setting on the gybeeze and I alter the friction if necessary by tightening and loosening the line on each side. This gives great control over how the system works in gusty or changing wind conditions without have to go to the cabin top to reset as the wi d changes.
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Post by Torsten on Jan 20, 2019 7:57:17 GMT
Hi Ian, We we have the Wichard and have found it excellent. Of course or SO30i has a much smaller sail and we use it in the lowest friction setting. We use the single line system per the instructions with a clutch near the cockpit on one side, but we don't find much need to do a lot of adjustment. I really like the double ended idea mentioned above for a larger sail, where you will use a higher friction setting and may find it necessary to do more adjusting, even if it does mean extending the rope. It works so well that the great forces you get in an uncontrolled gybe are avoided. And no moving parts to cause problems. I hang it on the loop that is part of the upper end of vang attachment and fix the deck ends to the lower shroud anchors, one end is tied off and the other runs through a block and back to the clutch. Just like the instructions. Can't recommend it highly enough. If you do some research on how they are made you will understand why they cost so much. rene460
Hi Rene, Actually I am thinking on a similar solution on my SO30i. Do you have some pictures showing your installation? Especially fixing on the boom / vang and on the chain plate. Thanks Torsten
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Post by rene460 on Jan 20, 2019 10:54:49 GMT
Hi Torsten,
I have checked through the photos I have at hand and none show enough detail to be useful.
I will take some photos for you next time I am on board, but at the moment am about 800 km away, so possibly not until early March.
But it is a very simple installation. I have the Selden Rod Kicker, and if you look at the Seldenmast website, you will see that the slider on the end fixed to the boom has an extra eye, just aft of where top of the the strut is pinned. I hang the gybe preventer from this extra eye, using the bow shackle that came with it.
Starboard side, I simply use a bowline to tie the end of the rope to the aft of the two shroud u-bolts on the deck.
Port side, I have the recommended 50 mm block, just plain bearings, you don’t need ball races, which I shackle to the aft shroud u-bolt. The shackle has a captive pin to minimise the chance of bits being dropped overboard if I fumble when setting it up.
The rope then runs aft to a Spinlock clutch on the deck where it can be reached from within the cockpit, the same model as on the back of the cabin top for all the other lines that terminate there. The excess rope runs across the side deck and up under the dodger where I coil the excess rope. Others have called this the single line system, or single sided system.
Our choice of Port and Starboard side is determined by keeping stuff off the side we use for normal access in the pen, the other side could suit you better. But it also means the nuts for the through bolts holding the clutch are easily fitted from in the cockpit locker without having to remove any lining.
It is worth putting that clutch far enough inboard from the toe rail to let water flow and a cleaning brush fit behind it. Makes hosing down and deck cleaning easier. I left about 10 mm gap, 20 mm would be better.
I did consider installing the second clutch on the other side per the option in the instructions, but decided to start simple as nothing I have done causes any extra work if I decide to install the second side later. We find we need only occassional adjustment and the second clutch is weight and cost for no obvious advantage. As we normally sail only two up, the second clutch would rarely be used. We just haul in the rope until the two legs of the bridle are nearly straight with minimal tension, so the rope must be dragged through the device as soon as the boom starts to move. In stronger winds it is probably better to tighten it just a little.
The 30i is at the bottom end of the recommended sail areas, so we only put the rope through one slot before taking it over the Pin in the top slot - that will make more sense when you are looking at the device and the instructions.
I take off the fitting and the rope when we leave the boat. The rope does make a trip point where it crosses the deck, but that seems easy to allow for, and minimal compared to the safety of having it rigged whenever we are sailing.
I hope that is enough to help until I can take some pictures. But feel free to ask if anything is not clear.
rene460
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Post by pdodds on Jan 20, 2019 13:56:23 GMT
Have a look at Captain Dons Boom Brake on a google search. It’s about $55 US and there are videos on the setup. It has a few different friction settings to weave the line through, that you have to supply. I connect mine from my midship cleats up to the boom and back down to the other side on my 36.2. Simple setup and inexpensive peace of mind while heading down wind. Online videos will give some ideas on setup and adjustment possibilities.
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Post by Torsten on Jan 20, 2019 16:15:51 GMT
Thanks Rene for your good explanation on how to setup for our SO30i and also thanks to pdodds for pointing me to the video.
I assume function wise the Captain Don's boom brake is equal to what Rene described besides the expense of the brake itself. Now I have a much better understanding what and where to do.
Meanwhile I thought of the optional one line solution mentioned in the Wichard Gyb'Easy manual. Here is the main line fixed on both chain plates before and after passing the boom brake while an additiona (adjustable) line is pulling the brake towards the boom to strengthen the main line.
This would allow to run the adjustable line parallel to the vang line...
However I am still a bit concerned about braking the boom when placing it too close to the mast.
But I will give it a try
Cheers Torsten
P.S: I already did the invest for a simple "boom brake" out of the climber business which I like to try out
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Post by Don Reaves on Jan 20, 2019 16:47:20 GMT
Thanks Rene for your good explanation on how to setup for our SO30i and also thanks to pdodds for pointing me to the video.
I assume function wise the Captain Don's boom brake is equal to what Rene described besides the expense of the brake itself. Now I have a much better understanding what and where to do.
Meanwhile I thought of the optional one line solution mentioned in the Wichard Gyb'Easy manual. Here is the main line fixed on both chain plates before and after passing the boom brake while an additiona (adjustable) line is pulling the brake towards the boom to strengthen the main line.
This would allow to run the adjustable line parallel to the vang line...
However I am still a bit concerned about braking the boom when placing it too close to the mast.
But I will give it a try
Cheers Torsten
P.S: I already did the invest for a simple "boom brake" out of the climber business which I like to try out
That looks almost exactly like the rescue-8 climbing device I use. Don
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Post by Trevor on Jan 21, 2019 1:30:43 GMT
Hello all, I have a photo of my setup below. It is a simple mountaineering device as explained by previous posts. It is attached to the boom behind the vang using the correct Selden fitting the same as the attachments for the main sheet blocks. I had to add that extra one to allow it to hang below the boom from a stainless "D" shackle clear of all other fittings. I purchased it on Ebay very cheaply although it is stainless. I'm sure it doesn't work as well as the specialist equipment but it does slow an accidental gybe down enough to prevent damage. The line passes through turning blocks near the shrouds and goes back to the aft cleats. I should rig jammers to the combing near the helm positions to be a little more professional but just haven't got around to it. Trevor www.23hq.com/yachtbird/photo/50841213/original
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Post by rene460 on Jan 21, 2019 8:46:59 GMT
Hi Torsten, good that my post was helpful. You can see that my installation is very similar to what Trevor did with the other product, except that I tied off one side at the shroud fixing u-bolt with a bowline, and only ran the line through a block and back to the cockpit on the other side. This is what I meant by single line system. Perhaps I have mis-remembered the terminology in the instructions.
And I did use a clutch out near the toe rail, though a horn cleat would be a workable, lower cost option. I would not use a cam cleat. Also I used the extra eye on the slider for the rod kicker rather than an additional slider.
I am not sure I follow your comment about “pulling the line towards the boom”. The adjustment line adjusts the total length of the rope bridle, but the preventer moves along the rope with significant friction (to produce the braking action) so the length from the boom to each side varies each time you gybe. It would not be really a good idea to attach the adjuster end to the boom. Perhaps I did not understand your intent.
I put the clutch out near the toe rail so the rope does not run along the side deck where we walk, but is close to one side the whole way.
I suspect the double line system would come into its own on a bigger boat where the bridle has to be passed through several of the slots to provide the necessary braking action. This would make it much more difficult to adjust the bridle by hand if necessary by pushing the boom over to tighten the line on the opposite side of the boom from the adjuster, and it would be an advantage to have the second adjuster on the other side.
rene460
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Post by Torsten on Jan 21, 2019 16:43:46 GMT
Sorry, but "They gave me a dictionary but not the language..."
What I tried to describe was following option taken out of Wichard's manual accessible from the web...
So from my understanding the "Gyb'Flex" line could be fixed with bowlines (or snap shackles) on each U-bolt and the tension will be made via a line coming from the boom and going more or less midship to the cockpit...
Thanks for your good support
Torsten
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Post by rene460 on Jan 21, 2019 21:42:58 GMT
Hi Torsten, no problems at all. Dictionaries have their limitations, but nothing that can’t be sorted out with an extra question or two. I always admire you people who are contributing in a second or third language. You make it an even richer forum.
That is a great concept that I had not seen before. I wonder if the manuals have been updated since I purchased mine many years ago. Has a big advantage in clearing the side decks and requiring only one clutch. It would be interesting to hear from someone using this system.
rene460
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Post by Trevor on Jan 22, 2019 5:16:45 GMT
Hi Torsten,
That is a really nice way to adjust the boom brake. It never ceases to amaze me how just when I think I know about something, someone comes up with a much simpler and better way of doing the same thing!
Many thanks for that.
Regards,
Trevor
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Post by Syrah on Jan 31, 2019 8:05:19 GMT
I’m headed down to my boat tomorrow, to see if I can set up the Gybe Easy with a single line coming back to the coach top. As shown in the the picture from the Gybe Easy manual. Getting the control line back past the main sheet is the puzzle that I’m still trying to solve. Love to hear anyone’s thoughts on how best to do this. I’m considering putting a Ronstan Series 32 Car Slide & Loop Track Stop see photo) at the bow end of each Genoa track (to remove the trip hazard). Each side of the Gybe-flex would then come back to these. I’m also looking at adding a gas spring to the Selden rodkicker, so I can take the topping lift back out of the cabin top and free up a clutch.
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Post by Torsten on Feb 3, 2019 8:05:10 GMT
Hi Syrah, Did you manage to go onboard? Any success? I like the idea with using the the genua traveller, unfortunately it seems to be no solution for the SO30i because they are too close towards the superstructure (I hope this is the right wording for what is the ceiling of the salon) Regards Torsten
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