Fresh water pump

[dralyagmas]

I am in the process of buying a 2003 SF37 and the boat has been sitting moored for the last 1-2 years without being used at all.

So we cannot get water coming out of any of the taps (galley or shower). We have filled the front water tanks to overflowing and there is some water in the rear tank. The valves next to the nav table show the front tank open and rear closed. When we turn the water press pump on on the instrument panel I can hear the pump running but nothing happens. I am scared to let it run for too long in case it blows out the pump. How long do I need to leave this for to prime up the water system to get flow out of the galley taps and the shower?

We left it for about 2-3 minutes and the pump did not get hot but I couldnt see any water flowing through the lines but given its been sitting unused for so long do I need to prime the water filter and the 2L white tank which I can only assume is a reservoir?

Firstly am I doing something wrong in the process?
Secondly if no to the first question what could it be other than a stuffed water pump?

[Don Reaves]

I would start by cleaning all the filters. There is a filter between the water tanks and the pump, just after the tank select valves. There are also filters in each faucet.

I would also open the drain valve on the water heater to get rid of any stale water. But be sure to close it before running the pump.

After the pump begins running, it shouldn't take too long for the pitch to change, a bit lower, as it starts pumping water instead of air. This shouldn't take many minutes, but it might take a minute or so.

There may be a blockage somewhere in the system. Even if there isn't you will probably need to clean out the lines. There are other threads on the forum suggesting methods for doing this.

Good luck.
Don

[loredo]

Do you open a faucet when you run the pump to prime the system?
At least on my boat I need to open at least on faucet or the system will not prime.
Maybe it's simple as that?

Loredo

[dralyagmas]

OK So the old owner got it working with a bike pump to the accumulator. That worked fine for a couple of weeks and we managed to fllush everything out of the system and life was great. But now the same issue has come up with the water pump running constantly (left going for say 15 minutes with the tap open).

I have checked all the filters and lines and I have no water anywhere in the bilge so I am confident that we do not have a water leak.

So I have used a bike pump to pump up the accumulator and the pump is running constantly. I get no water out of the taps at all including the deck shower. I ended up turning the pump off after 15 minutes for being scared of blowing that up.

The pressure dial on the bike pump was suggesting about 3 bar but that would drop rapidly to about 1 but yet I still couldnt get any water out of any tap. There is water in the tank.

Any ideas?

[sailbleu]

Very hard to tell from a distance , but first things first , you might try to remove the pump , bring in a 12 volt battery , connect a hose to the suction and put it in a (full) bucket of water.
See how it goes.
Or better yet , leave the pump as it is , disconnect the suction and use a separate hose that runs to the same bucket , open the taps and let it run.
One thing will lead to another , no ?
Elementry my dear Watson , elementry

Regards

[zofiasailing]

I'm hoping by this time that you've got this sorted but we did have a failure on our water pumps a couple of years back too and the problem was a crack in the clear (acrylic?) cap of the water filter/sieve strainer unit attached to the pump. The unit contains the stainless steel sieve on the Jonson pump. (Zofia is a 2007, SO42DS)

We were offshore at the time and tried unsuccessfully to make a temporary repair (everything from gaffer tape, superglue, araldite to sikaflex). Since the integrity of this part was essential to maintain the pressure required to pump the water, it proved to be the Achilles heel of the whole water reticulation on board. No pressure=no water from the taps and of course the pump running without end unless turned off at the control panel. We immediately ordered 2 new units (can't just buy the caps) one as a replacement and another as a spare. Those didn't last and then we went through another 3 before we got sick of it and ended up by-passing the filter altogether using parts bought at a garden reticulation store.

Why the original cap lasted 4 years and then none of the replacements would last 6 months we didn't discover (too much pressure causing them to fracture or some manufacturing problem)but we ended up doing away with the strainer unit altogether. We've been operating on the filterless system for 2 years without any adverse consequences. 

[electricmonk]

I sense a few red herrings here. The pump wont run if the flow switch is working correctly and the accumulator is pressurised - its pressure in the accumulator that switches the pump OFF, it having been accumulated by the pump!

So that leaves very few alternatives, either there is a blockage in the pipework to the pump preventing water reaching the pump OR there is an air leak allowing air into the pump so no suction is developed to pull the water through. This ingress of air can be difficult to find and at a distance maybe impossible to diagnose but the pump valves would be a good place to start - they can get a bit sticky if left unused for a time. PLUS if someone has pressurised the system to 3 bar or more the valves in the pump could be displaced or damaged. The good news is the pumps are easy to dismantle and clean up.

[Quiddle]

Apr 7, 2014 19:28:46 GMT zofiasailing said:

I'm hoping by this time that you've got this sorted but we did have a failure on our water pumps a couple of years back too and the problem was a crack in the clear (acrylic?) cap of the water filter/sieve strainer unit attached to the pump. The unit contains the stainless steel sieve on the Jonson pump. (Zofia is a 2007, SO42DS)

We were offshore at the time and tried unsuccessfully to make a temporary repair (everything from gaffer tape, superglue, araldite to sikaflex). Since the integrity of this part was essential to maintain the pressure required to pump the water, it proved to be the Achilles heel of the whole water reticulation on board. No pressure=no water from the taps and of course the pump running without end unless turned off at the control panel. We immediately ordered 2 new units (can't just buy the caps) one as a replacement and another as a spare. Those didn't last and then we went through another 3 before we got sick of it and ended up by-passing the filter altogether using parts bought at a garden reticulation store.

Why the original cap lasted 4 years and then none of the replacements would last 6 months we didn't discover (too much pressure causing them to fracture or some manufacturing problem)but we ended up doing away with the strainer unit altogether. We've been operating on the filterless system for 2 years without any adverse consequences. 

I had exactly this problem so it seems it may be a common fault. The filter cover received no impact and is not exposed to UV so I can only assume the fracture was caused by water hammer - the pump does stop abruptly. I have, so far, managed a successful repair with superglue applied both internally and externally. If it does fail again I shall adopt Zofiasailing's strategy and remove the filter, which is fairly coarse.

[dralyagmas]

Ok so I am learning all the extra bits on a cruising boat compared to the race boats that I am used to. The problem was that the pump was not strong enough to draw the water from the tank, through the filter and into the pump intake, through the pump to the taps. The fix was to pull the intake pipe off the pump and suck on it like a golf ball and garden hose until there was enough water through the system to enable the pump to suck and drive the process. As soon as there is any air bubbles the system will stop so more sucking.

worked fine for a few weeks until we emptied a tank and then had to go through the whole process again. Now we have changed the carbon filter in the jabsco filter and now I have to go through it all again. I am getting good at sucking..... Hmmm

[sitara]

Hi Dralyagmas,
This does not sound right - the pump should be able to selfprime. My previous boat was a 2004 SO29.2 which I expect would have had the same pump and we had no hassles with priming the pump, just fill the tank (bladder in this case) and switch it on. There was a kink in the suction line that restricted flow to a dribble - a cable tie had been pulled too tight in manufacturing as was almost blocking the flow - but this was easily fixed (we were the second owner!).

Is the pump the original? Being unable to selfprime makes me wonder if it is an impeller pump. The pumps fitted to Jeanneaus are usually diaphragm pumps which have no trouble self priming. Assuming the pump body/filter housing is not leaking air, the only other cause could be damaged or partially blocked valves or a damaged diaphragm - a small enough fault to prevent the pump from pumping air but not big enough to prevent it from pumping water.

Hope this helps, you should not have to keep sucking! Keep us posted.

[dralyagmas]

It's a Jabsco diaphragm pump. In my fault finding process I have taken it apart and it has three small diaphragms or little circular pumps. They were all intact (visual assessment anyway) and when the pump is primed it runs fine.

i might take a photo of the system to see if you guys can see any modifications that may not have been effective that I can't tell

thanks for the input

[sitara]

Hi,
I found this on a Jabsco website.

FAILURE TO PRIME – MOTOR OPERATES, BUT NO PUMP DISCHARGE
? Restricted intake or discharge line.
? Air leak in intake in line.
? Punctured pump diaphragm (water leak).
? Debris under flapper valves.
? Crack in pump housing.

Hope it helps.

[dralyagmas]

It's alright crisis over. I filled the water tank to overflowing and this gave enough head pressure to self prime.

Much easier than sucky sucky


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Seagem]

Apr 7, 2014 19:28:46 GMT zofiasailing said:

I'm hoping by this time that you've got this sorted but we did have a failure on our water pumps a couple of years back too and the problem was a crack in the clear (acrylic?) cap of the water filter/sieve strainer unit attached to the pump. The unit contains the stainless steel sieve on the Jonson pump. (Zofia is a 2007, SO42DS)

We were offshore at the time and tried unsuccessfully to make a temporary repair (everything from gaffer tape, superglue, araldite to sikaflex). Since the integrity of this part was essential to maintain the pressure required to pump the water, it proved to be the Achilles heel of the whole water reticulation on board. No pressure=no water from the taps and of course the pump running without end unless turned off at the control panel. We immediately ordered 2 new units (can't just buy the caps) one as a replacement and another as a spare. Those didn't last and then we went through another 3 before we got sick of it and ended up by-passing the filter altogether using parts bought at a garden reticulation store.

Why the original cap lasted 4 years and then none of the replacements would last 6 months we didn't discover (too much pressure causing them to fracture or some manufacturing problem)but we ended up doing away with the strainer unit altogether. We've been operating on the filterless system for 2 years without any adverse consequences. 

I've had exactly the same problem. I took the inlet strainer clear plastic cap off to check the filter but when I put it back and tightened it, noticed it was cracked. I tried gluing and covering with tape and it helped a little but was obviously sucking in air so got water at the tap spluttering out. I've bought a new inlet strainer and it works perfectly now. I have however bought the bits I need to by-pass the strainer completely and plumb direct to the pump should it fail again.

[dralyagmas]

Well It was working fine until the last trip where the missus opened the tap to get water in the sink when the tank had run dry. I sourced myself a hose from the marina we were at and filled the tanks to overflowing and turning the pump on, but no joy. After some fiddling I got water out and the pump primed but now the water pump will turn on for a few seconds every minute or two, suggesting (based on info in this forum )) that I have either an air or a water leak.

I turned the pump off and went back to bed. In the morning we sailed home and on return I looked in the bilge and found out why the tank was empty quicker than we expected and why the water pump would come on. Looks like we have a water leak and a reasonably good one.

After mopping out ~100L of water from the bilge compartments that don't drain into the sump (not sure why but that's another job) I am now looking for a leak which I think could be at the water pump....

I love boats

[sailby2]

Hi,

Before you get too far into this you might want to check the hot water tank and see if the pressure release valve is the culprit. My previous boat was a SO37. Prior to starting out for a trip, we filled the tank. With no wind, we were motoring causing the hot water tank to work. About 4 hours into the trip I heard the bilge pump and went down below to check. The hot water tank had drained the 40 gal aft tank dry. After arriving in port, we turned the pressure release valve to remove any scaling and made it part of our regular routine maint checks. Never happened again in the 9 years we owned her.

As for the fresh water tank not priming, our current boat is a SO42i that we recently purchased. Like yours, the boat was not used much and had little maint performed. Our water system would not operate so off I went thinking it was the pump, failure to prime, blockage in the lines leading from the tanks, etc. After working on the system for days with no luck I unscrewed all of the filters on the taps and was greeted by a spray of water! The tap filters were so mucked up with dirt and debris that they were blocking all flow. I felt pretty stupid to not have checked them before wasting days but got fixated on the pump and prime being the problem.

Regards,

[dralyagmas]

Yep. Went through it tonight and the culprit seems to be the hot water tank. It heats up but has a slow trickle out of the drain hose into the bilge. Can you fill me in on how to maintain the pressure release valve? Thanks

[sailby2]

Hi,

My "original to the boat" valve had a rotary knob up near the top left hand side of the tank that you turned clockwise. You'd hear the tank letting water out into the bilge but it would stop on each turn. Every so often (couple of months), I'd turn it a few times to make sure it had no calcification or scaling and never had an issue with it afterwards.

Best of luck and hope this helps!

Regards,

[dralyagmas]

OK I turned the knob and this audibly let out air (hence its a pressure valve), there didn't appear to be any calcification. This hasn't seemed to stop the flow of water into the bilge though.

From my limited understanding of the system, calcification of the pressure valve would make the water pump turn on frequently because the system would depressurise due to air leaking from the valve (unless its calcified shut). But how would this result in water leaking from the system?

I am sure that the hose that the water is leaking from into the bilge is from the water heater, so how else can I try to address this?

Thanks 

[DUET]

Greetings:

I too had a pump problem, purchased a new Johnson pump, and I still had a water pressure issue. I took apart the connector tube (one into which each tank is connected flowing to the strainer) and found that the problem was the check value. Cleaned it out twice and all is working well. I assume that winterizing and starting up brings any debris in the water tanks to the tube and clogs both the check value and filter. Hope this helps.

[dnickj]

Jun 22, 2014 23:56:40 GMT dralyagmas said:

OK I turned the knob and this audibly let out air (hence its a pressure valve), there didn't appear to be any calcification. This hasn't seemed to stop the flow of water into the bilge though.

From my limited understanding of the system, calcification of the pressure valve would make the water pump turn on frequently because the system would depressurise due to air leaking from the valve (unless its calcified shut). But how would this result in water leaking from the system?

I am sure that the hose that the water is leaking from into the bilge is from the water heater, so how else can I try to address this?

Thanks 

The idea of turning the Knob is to stop if from seizing there should be no air in the system and the valve is just a pressure safety valve that vents water - it could be that the valve spring has degraded and the valve will need to be replaced - they are readily available on-line
we did have a problem with the water pressure pump overrunning due to a faulty pressure switch - this also caused the relief valve to let by

[dralyagmas]

There probably wasn't any air in the system until I opened the pressure valve

I looked all over and around the back of the hot water system and even under it but found no water whatsoever. But water is still slowly trickling out of the black rubber hose that goes from the hot water system to the bilge. I suppose if the valve is leaking straight into the hose that would explain it...

[fulmitz]

I know this thread is almost a year old but I'm having a similar problem. The only difference is that my galley sink works great with no pressure issues but the sinks in both heads barely trickle out.  At first it was just the head connected to the main salon that tricked, and the forward cabs head sink worked fine. I emptied the primary tank and switched over to the secondary tank and Now both barely trickle and I dont hear the pump running but when I have the galley sink on I hear the pump turning on and off keeping pressure.  Would the sinks in the heads have a different pump.  I'm extremely new at all of this including plumbing so be gentle and the more detail the better.  I have a 2012 44 DS and I'm the 2nd owner. I don't think the first owner took very good care of her. 

Thanks,

Rob

p.s. I filled the primary tank back up (not to overflowing but the gauge reads full) with no success. 

[so36idavid]

Rob,

Odds are that you only have one pressure water pump and that there's nothing wrong with it, although anything is possible when it comes to marine plumbing . You can test this by opening the head faucets and let the trickle run for a long time. Eventually you will hear the pressure water pump cycle briefly. The pressure has to be coming from somewhere!

I would guess that there's something obstructing the lines which lead to the head faucets and that it got sucked out of the bottom of the tank when it was almost empty. I would turn off the pressure water pump and completely drain the pressure through the galley faucet. At this point you should get no flow at all out of any faucet. Then disconnect the cold water line to a head faucet. With the line disconnected, turn on the pressure water pump. You should see a healthy flow (have a bucket on standby). If you don't then the problem is upstream somewhere and you'll have to trace the pipes back until you find it. If the flow is healthy then clean out the faucet or replace it, there's something stuck in there.

My sympathies, plumbing problems are my worst, I'd rather spend half a day up the mast than have to deal with plumbing of any kind . Good luck.

David

[fulmitz]

My repair guy seems to think it's the filter on the faucet that is clogged.  I'm gonna check it out if I have a chance this weekend.  I'm at a conference through Sunday afternoon. I'll keep ya posted.

Rob