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Post by joker64 on Mar 21, 2013 8:45:56 GMT
Sailbleu, thanks. Just for info, how does the AF stripper make a mess of the hull? Is it by leaving residue, going to deep, or just being a mess? I did use a scraper a bit on the last part, and it did work quite well, and perhaps better. But, it was something i learned on the last bit. I will definatley use it next time around.
What is the best way to open the blisters? I have heard everything from a grinder to a drill.
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Post by joker64 on Mar 21, 2013 10:35:59 GMT
Sailbleu, thanks. Just for info, how does the AF stripper make a mess of the hull? Is it by leaving residue, going to deep, or just being a mess? I did use a scraper a bit on the last part, and it did work quite well, and perhaps better. But, it was something i learned on the last bit. I will definatley use it next time around. What is the best way to open the blisters? I have heard everything from a grinder to a drill.  |
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Post by joker64 on Mar 21, 2013 10:37:52 GMT
One blister opened up to 4 cm.  |
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Post by joker64 on Mar 21, 2013 10:38:29 GMT
Another  |
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Post by joker64 on Mar 21, 2013 10:39:34 GMT
With just a small hole punched into it.  |
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Post by joker64 on Mar 21, 2013 10:40:39 GMT
Just a few drops that came out when pressed.  |
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Post by electricmonk on Mar 21, 2013 11:05:12 GMT
the planner will take off everything and leave you with a "furry" hull of fibres and lots of work, we are talking weeks of work and in your case its unnecessary.
I've been involved in osmosis treatments for about 40 years and a cheap angle grinder is the tool of choice, much neater when used carefully. The problem you have with a scraper is it removes too much gel the blister area just gets bigger for no gain, drills tend to go too deep unless you are very careful.
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Post by sitara on Mar 21, 2013 21:03:35 GMT
I had similar blisters on an older boat (not a Jeanneau). They showed up on sanding as concentric circles through the antifoul and when opened released a small amount of acid. As the were small, 1-1.5 cm in diameter I opened them up with a blunt (same as cheap) counter sink tool on my electric drill. Filled with epoxy then all OK. I did get new blisters for several years as the hull was only about 6-7 years old.
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Post by sailbleu on Mar 22, 2013 3:48:40 GMT
Using AF stripper makes your hull look like sh*t . There's always a remaining residu , and if you have more than 3 old layers of AF - which is mostly the case - the solution never penetrates deeper than 3 coats , so you will have to repreat the procedure.
You still have to scrape , the sticky stuff (AF and diluent ) doesn't fall off the boat.
I have tried it you know , therefor I can tell you not to buy it, it's a waste of money.
It took me 5 days (6 hours/day) to get my hull scraped on my own.
Get the blisters out with a grinder , easy peasy.
But first be sure whether it's osmosis or not. Like Shakespeare would put it , Is it osmosis or is it no osmosis , that's the question.
Regards
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Post by joker64 on Mar 22, 2013 13:28:18 GMT
sailbleu, as always thanks again for following my progress and suggesting on going forward. Unfortunately, we had already bought the AF stripper. We had tried removing the old AF with a sander, and that was going to be almost as costly, and alot more work. The AF stripper worked well for us, except for that we left over night, and after the pressure wash (which I admit was on par with coloring the bottom of the hull with a crayon), and a bit of light sanding, it looked pretty good. When we return, we will definitely use the litmus paper, and an angle grinder (returning the unused planer in exchange for an angle grinder). Then just let it dry in the south Italian sun for as long as possible.
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Post by sailbleu on Mar 22, 2013 14:13:38 GMT
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Post by joker64 on Mar 22, 2013 15:21:56 GMT
Sailbleu, Interesting photos. Google translate helped me a little. I work with so may dutch guys, you'd think I'd pick some up. Anyway, I didn't have such a gooy mess I have to say. The Veneziana went on very well with both a roller and a brush, cost me 168 euro for 10 liters. I had calculated that the packs of sanding disks would have cost us about 80 euros. With as little time as we had, we thought we'd take a chance. The first application, waiting 4 hours actually went well. Using a standard auto, el-cheapo, high pressure washer, it came off quite well. It took two guys 50 minutes to apply to 1/2 of a 44' boat at 8 deg C. It took about 3 hours to wash that half off. However, I am sure that we had no more than one coat that remained on the hull. In some areas it was obvious that there were more layers, and the AF stripper in that case did not strip to the gelcoat in some areas, and in others it did ok. I looked for scraper, and I don't know why, but they don't seem to sell them here. I haven't found one in any hardware store. The first pic is what the bottom looked like when it came out of the water.  |
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Post by joker64 on Mar 22, 2013 15:23:37 GMT
More or less what it looked like after the first application of the AF stripper.  |
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Post by Zanshin on Mar 22, 2013 18:15:40 GMT
I've never seen a "beard" that bad - that boat couldn't have made it to the haulout pit under its own power... did they push it?
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Post by joker64 on Mar 22, 2013 19:41:56 GMT
I've never seen a "beard" that bad - that boat couldn't have made it to the haulout pit under its own power... did they push it? Yeah, our location has turned out to be less than ideal. We didn't even try under our own power. The marina is only 400 meters away, and so assuming the water intake was blocked, we just had it towed the short distance. Glad we did. The salt-water lake with a canal access to the Med seemed a good idea at the time. It may soon be time for a change. |
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Post by Seagem on Mar 23, 2013 20:06:30 GMT
I know its too late now but I used a 'pro scraper' to get the anti foul off my hull and found it to be a great tool. It was hard work, it took me 8 whole days to scrape and then sand the hull with 40 grade sandpaper using an orbital sander on my SO 42i but the finish afterwards was superb. www.gelplane.co.uk/proscraper/product.asp |
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Post by Seagem on Mar 23, 2013 20:13:17 GMT
If you do a search on 'Copper anti fouling' there are some pictures I posted showing the stages of stripping my hull.
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Post by joker64 on Mar 23, 2013 20:51:24 GMT
I tried a brief search but didn't find it.
I estimated the combined man hours for what we did on a 44' hull to be 10-12 hours, BUT we only had one coat of AF remaining. After a brief sanding, it looks pretty good.
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Post by sailbleu on Mar 24, 2013 8:30:56 GMT
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Post by joker64 on Apr 16, 2013 17:49:38 GMT
Ok. Well, as much as I hate to report this. The blister issue is worse than thought.
It appears that epoxy at some point was added to the hull. However, in some areas, in what appears to be support bases, there is no epoxy at all. So, it appears that a bad epoxy application hasn't helped whatever was behind it. Once I sand through the epoxy, blisters start to appear.
It is now quite evident that to conduct a temporary measure....meaning to grind the blisters down with an angle grinder, will be in effect, grinding the whole hull down.
SO........I have no choice but to approach the repair in a complete manner. As such, I am now in need of a gelplaner. If anyone knows of a used one forsale, or one that may be for rent, please let me know. I am in South Italy, and would even be open to picking up the expenses should someone in the EU be willing to come on down and 'show me how it is done'.
Again, open to any and all ideas, but it seems that the decision has been made for me.
Steven
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Post by sailbleu on Apr 17, 2013 5:01:42 GMT
Ok. Well, as much as I hate to report this. The blister issue is worse than thought. It appears that epoxy at some point was added to the hull. However, in some areas, in what appears to be support bases, there is no epoxy at all. So, it appears that a bad epoxy application hasn't helped whatever was behind it. Once I sand through the epoxy, blisters start to appear. It is now quite evident that to conduct a temporary measure....meaning to grind the blisters down with an angle grinder, will be in effect, grinding the whole hull down. SO........I have no choice but to approach the repair in a complete manner. As such, I am now in need of a gelplaner. If anyone knows of a used one forsale, or one that may be for rent, please let me know. I am in South Italy, and would even be open to picking up the expenses should someone in the EU be willing to come on down and 'show me how it is done'. Again, open to any and all ideas, but it seems that the decision has been made for me. Steven Does the yard have a noticeboard / billboard of any kind ? If so , you could publish a cry for help in English and Italian asking for an experienced helping hand. Make sure to add the fact that you're willing to pay. I'm sure word gets around that way. In the meantime you can start cruising the internet looking for a gelplane. I guess your recent decision also implies no sailing this year. Regards |
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Post by joker64 on Apr 17, 2013 16:49:42 GMT
Yeah, I am trying to get the word out. BUT, like most yards, I imagine, if any work is done by a 'paid' entity, it has to be by that boat yard. Besides....where I am, I seriously doubt that anyone even knows what a gelplane is. They will want to sand blast it....and I'm not doing that.
As far as sailing. You're right, I am sure that there will be little if any sailing this year. Oh well, some things we just can't control. What I can try to control is to see that I do as good as job as I can.
I am looking online for the gelplane, but so far no luck.
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Post by sailbleu on Apr 18, 2013 6:50:07 GMT
I will also keep an eye out for a plane.
this is how its done
Regards
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Post by sitara on Apr 18, 2013 21:35:37 GMT
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Post by Don Reaves on Apr 18, 2013 21:42:43 GMT
You would never get away with all that dust blowing away where I keep my boat. Without a good vacuum system, you would have to enclose the entire boat in a tent to contain the dust.
But it sure looks fast and easy compared with using any other methods I've seen.
Don
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