Beware! main sheet car failure!!

[ianqv]

EDITOR: Now published on Hints and Tips

Hi All,

We had a very worrying failure whilst out sailing this week.
The alloy eye on the main sheet car sheared off on one side.
On closer examination - we found what caused the failure.

The alloy eye should swivel on the stainless pin.
But guess what - in a salt water environment alloy and stainless have been known to corrode together!! (Apologies for the sarcasm!!).

Anyway please see attached pics so you can see what happened and how I got around the problem!!

Please note: pressing the stainless pin out of the car was a real tricky job!! But after a while we got it out.

The main reason for posting this is I had a look at another SO 37 - and the alloy eye was also seized!! You don't realize this as in the rest position it seizes in the vertical position - so when you let the main out you never notice as there are 101 other things to out for!!!

So to check if you have this problem, simply slacken your main sheet (with the sail down) and check if your alloy eye swivels on the stainless pin. If it does…. Open a beer. If it doesn’t - at best a squirt of lube may sort things out. If not remove the car so you can get to it so you can free it off (and still open a beer!!)

Another top tip - don't forget when you slide the car off the traveler, about 50 ball bearings WILL fall out - so do it slowly and put a towel down to catch them all!!

I hope this helps!!

Best Regards

Ian

[ianqv]

another pic!!

[ianqv]

Fixed car.

[Zanshin]

Looks like a 43DS - I didn't count the number of ball bearings that I collected when I took my traveler apart, but it could have been 50... I didn't have a dissimilar metals issue, but just plain abrasion.

[ianqv]

Hi All,

The failure was on a S/O 37 (Built 2002).

Regards

Ian

[Full Circle]

And those ball bearings are Torlon, which must be rare indeed, as the price demanded is prodigious indeed.

[boltnbrew]

Who is the manufacturer? Does look like a Harken unit. Given the age, they may be embarrassed enough to replace if you remove this post!

[ianqv]

Just an update, I have now checked 5 jeanneau's with the same type of main car. All 5 cars where siezed!!!!

[gowell101]

ianqv,
Many thanks for the warning
Checked my 2005 40.3 today...seized as well.

But rather than removing the whole car, I'm thinking of drilling the alloy swivel.
Lots of small holes along the axis and then cracking the casting to remove it.
And then shackle the block, as you did.
Save time removing the pin from the car, it seems pretty sound.

Actually a very timely warning as I'm upgrading to 5:1 mainsheet system.
Will post pics when done.
Bill

[ianqv]

Hi Bill,

Removing the car was the easy bit.
Just go to the end on the traveller, and there is one allen key bolt that holds the end on - just apply lots of lube to the bolt whilst working it in and out.
Slide the car off (catching the bearings) - do the modification...
The bearings are easy to put back in (just fiddely!!).

If you do drill, please do take some pics.

Cheers

Ian

[gowell101]

Ian,
My traveller is by Goiot.
Seems they have modified newer versions.
www.goiot.com/inc/?c=2&p=16
I like the idea of a spring to keep block upright.

Will tackle traveller problem in the morning and take some pics.

Bill

[ianqv]

Cheers Bill


Just an update... I have checked some more yachts with the same system!
Sadly, EVERY car I have checked has been seized!

Regards

Ian

[gowell101]

Ian,
No luck removing end of traveler, seized bolts both ends.
So drilled the alloy swivel to remove it.
The swivel had a brass bearing which stayed locked onto the SS pin.
Removed the brass bearing as well.

Great choice of materials, alloy and brass.

Now using a spectra loop to attach the new double block to the car.
Bill

[sailbleu]

Had the same prob over here. 40DS
But solved it before it got a chance to break.
Last winter I removed the whole traveler , took it home and bashed the pin out of the car , That really took some effort with the risk of destroying the car. Both parts seemed to welded to each other
But succeeded eventually , cleaned and sanded the crucial spots , greased up and everything is still running smoothly.

I think it will be a annual and returning task greasing this part.
A bit like my windlass , alu drum and ss shaft dont tend to agree that much.
www.jeanneau-owners.com/hintsandtips/Leroysomerwindlass.html

Jeanneau could of tried to avoid combinations like that I would imagine.

Greatings

[ianqv]

Hi All,

I just wanted to update this thread as it could help someone out there....

You CAN still get Amiot traveller spares!!
Have a look at rigrite.com
Sadly that is where the good news ends!! to replace JUST the main sheet car they quoted me..... wait for it...... 750 US Dollars, plus import tax, plus postage!!!
And yes they are still making the "toggles" out of a low grade cast iron.

So with that in mind I approached my local machine shop to over engineer a new toggle.

They made it out of marine grade stainless and even added a bearing which the car pin can swivvel on.

See attached pics.

[ianqv]

Just another pic....

[ianqv]

last one



Cheers Ian

[windspeak]

Just don mine on my 43ds much the same process as Sailblue you have to take the traveler off the track it is impossible to drift out the pin in situ as you cant get it solid enough the 5mm Allen screw was a sod to free tried over two days with copious amounts of bolt release and totally destroyed 2x Allen keys invested in some Allen studs with T bar fittings (best £30 quid I've spent this year)
add 18inch of torque bar and turned it out quite easily the pin in the traveler was solid boiled the whole thing several times dried it whilst hot more oil firm taps with drift to crack the bond then set it up on the end grain of lump of soggy 8inch square yard block and welted it out with a five pound lump hammer and drift make sure you drift it out from the opposite side to the splined end or you will grove the the bearing mine now flicks Merrily back & forward with my little finger lovely

[sailbleu]

Just bumped into your hint and tips artikel , and was curious what you had to pay for this nice piece of improvisation.

Regards

[On y va]

It is not a correct conclusion, that "the stainless corroded onto the alumimium" as the stainless pin actually moves inside a bronze bus, which is placed inside the alu swivel piece.

The main reason for this piece to fail, is that the shackle of the block has too much movement either side. So every time one makes a tack, the shackle shoots to the other side of the pin.

If you fill the space on either side of the block-shackle with nylon washers (or stainless, using tefgel between the stainless and aluminium), this problem of one of the sides shearing off, cannot happen, as all the load is actually on the stainless pin and not partially on one of the sides of the aluminium swivel piece.

Like anything on a boat, it needs attention and maintenance. If you remove, clean and grease this item every year, it will last forever. If you don´t..... get your drill and Dremel out!

[ianqv]

Jan 14, 2014 17:06:53 GMT On y va said:

It is not a correct conclusion, that "the stainless corroded onto the alumimium" as the stainless pin actually moves inside a bronze bus, which is placed inside the alu swivel piece.

The main reason for this piece to fail, is that the shackle of the block has too much movement either side. So every time one makes a tack, the shackle shoots to the other side of the pin.

If you fill the space on either side of the block-shackle with nylon washers (or stainless, using tefgel between the stainless and aluminium), this problem of one of the sides shearing off, cannot happen, as all the load is actually on the stainless pin and not partially on one of the sides of the aluminium swivel piece.

Like anything on a boat, it needs attention and maintenance. If you remove, clean and grease this item every year, it will last forever. If you don´t..... get your drill and Dremel out!

Hi Onyva

I guess every boat has different problems. Mine HAD seized as it took (from memory) about 5 tonnes pressure to press it out.
But I do totally understand your point re the shackle having too much movement.

Regards

Ian

[paulreid]

Hello all, something else for you to worry about while we're on the mainsheet....a friend of mine suggested that all those shackles on the mainsheet need their shackle pins mousing as loose pin could also be a nasty surprise! Well once its been suggested you have to do it don't you, so I used some skinny cable ties and now I can sleep at night

[On y va]

Jan 29, 2014 0:19:43 GMT paulreid said:

Hello all, something else for you to worry about while we're on the mainsheet....a friend of mine suggested that all those shackles on the mainsheet need their shackle pins mousing as loose pin could also be a nasty surprise! Well once its been suggested you have to do it don't you, so I used some skinny cable ties and now I can sleep at night

Paulreid: you are right about securing the shackle pins, but cable ties are not the best of solutions in my opinion.
A drop of superglue or loctite looks a lot smarter than cable ties and is more secure, as cable ties in like the Med or Caribbean will deteriorate very quickly in the sun and go brittle. And especially the skinny versions deteriorate very quickly.

[so40gtb]

There is only one suitable place for the Amiot 1-meter traveler, and that's at the bottom of the slip! I say this based on 5 years with one on an SO34.2 and one year on our SO40. If your boat is larger than a 34, the Amiot must go. We had a Garhauer 1.5 m traveler custom-made for us a year ago, put it on before launch last spring, and could not be more pleased with its performance. (Yes, a Hints 'n Tips article on this replacement is "in the works".)

I have most of the Torlon balls left when I removed the Amiot unit from our SO40, along with the car and end sheaves. If anyone needs these, please PM me and we'll see how we can get these out of my spare boat parts stock!

--Karl

[ianqv]

Feb 1, 2014 3:32:42 GMT so40gtb said:

There is only one suitable place for the Amiot 1-meter traveler, and that's at the bottom of the slip! I say this based on 5 years with one on an SO34.2 and one year on our SO40. If your boat is larger than a 34, the Amiot must go. We had a Garhauer 1.5 m traveler custom-made for us a year ago, put it on before launch last spring, and could not be more pleased with its performance. (Yes, a Hints 'n Tips article on this replacement is "in the works".)

I have most of the Torlon balls left when I removed the Amiot unit from our SO40, along with the car and end sheaves. If anyone needs these, please PM me and we'll see how we can get these out of my spare boat parts stock!

--Karl

Hi Karl,

May I grab the Torlon balls please. can you advise how much you want for them?
You can post to me here in the UK. Or, I see from your profile you are in Chicago..... I have relatives who live in Chicago, so you could post to them.
Is paypal good for you?

Best Regards

Ian