Compression post sunk at the keel

[yachtingtypes]

I had a survey done yesterday on a 2003 43DS I am looking to purchase. From the outside you could see rust stains coming from the top of the keel suggesting that the sealant needs to be replaced. When looking at the bottom of the compression post, the support to the keel had been pushed down by about 1/2 inch and it was "hollow" in part of it. Are the two connected?

I gather the compression post depression is a known issue but would like advise on a potential "fix" or if this is fatal flaw for the purchase.

[omoo]

I had a survey performed on a 2001 43DS that showed the same problem with the base for the compression post. I purchased the boat after the owner had the base repaired. When the top of the base was cut wet plywood supports were exposed. The plywood was replaced by a fiberglass I beam. The base was covered with a new fiberglass top. The deck under the mast itself had also deformed since the compression post had sunk. The deck under the mast support was cut open, the wood removed and replaced with fiberglass. The work done appears to be very professional and one year later it is impossible to tell if there was ever a problem.

[yachtingtypes]

Thanks for the reponse it was very useful. Do you recall approximately how much it cost.

[Zanshin]

While my 2003 43DS was being surveyed the surveyor told me that settling under the compression post was a possible issues with this model, but the amount that my boat had settled was still within tolerance and wasn't anywhere close to what you have had.

[omoo]

The previous owner paid for the repairs so I don't know the cost.

[yachtingtypes]

Jeanneau provided details on how the repair to the base of the compression post is to be done. The quote for doing this work is approx $3,300.

[pnp]

I was recently advised that the mast support on our 2002 Jeanneau 43DS had collapsed by what looks like about 3/8 inch. I was shocked to learn that Jeanneau placed wood below the water line and that wood needed to stay completely sealed and dry.

After considering what I think of the idea of using wood for a critical structure below the water line, I wrote to Jeanneau America sales. Some businesses stand behind their products when they make a big mistake regardless of warranty or legal liability. In an unsigned email, Jeanneau made it clear that Jeanneau is not that type of business.

Our Jeanneau dealer said they recently performed this same repair on another 43DS. The estimate is $6,000. Ugh.

Does anyone know if there are other similar hidden defects that may pop up? Ie: did Jeanneau use wood in other critical areas below the water line? Also, did Jeanneau build the mast supports of other boats in the same way, or is it safe to consider Jeanneau in the future?

[sailbleu]

Scaring !
Does this construction fault applies to all the DS models ?
Should I be worried and check my 40DS also ?

Regards

[CycleSailor]

PNP,
My impression is this is not uncommon on 43DS's--I had the identical issue on my '0243DS discovered at the time of pre-purchase survey. There was about 3/8 deflection at the mast step as well as the compression pillar. The rig had to come off to repair the mast step & rebuilding the compression pillar was a big deal--my yard also created an ibeam structure out of a material like G10, welded a larger base on the post to distribute load over a broader area of the pillar--and then reglassed everything. Jeanneau's suggested fix seemed to us pretty inadequate. Cost of the repair, re-rigging, etc was more than $7000 but at least I know the boat might fall crumble away before anything will disturb my compression pillar.

Good luck.

[farfalla]

Hi

If anyone reading this topic has had a problem with the compression post support collapsing on a Sun Rise 35 please let me know what you did to put it right.

I have recently bought a Sun Rise 35 that has this problem and have removed the post. An advise on what to do next would be welcome.

[rc sail]

The August 2011 Cruising World magazine had a interesting 2-3 page article detailing a owners repair of a compression post and base on a 37 footer.

[ianqv]

Hi All,

I've been reading this thread with a great deal of worry!!
Do these sunk compression posts only affect D/S's?
I have an S/O 37 - I had a look at my post this morning - it looks ok, but to be honest I'm not 100% sure what I should be looking for.

My next boat was going to be a D/S - if this is a common concern I think I'll stick where I am!!

Cheers

Ian

[MalcolmP]

Feb 4, 2012 17:43:50 GMT ianqv said:

Hi All,

I've been reading this thread with a great deal of worry!!
Do these sunk compression posts only affect D/S's?
I have an S/O 37 - I had a look at my post this morning - it looks ok, but to be honest I'm not 100% sure what I should be looking for.

My next boat was going to be a D/S - if this is a common concern I think I'll stick where I am!!

Cheers

Ian

Providing your rig tension has held up Ok you should not have a problem
If the compression post block has crushed the rig will loosen significantly

There was wood as a block on my 34.2 and that always seemed fine but then I never let water accumulate in the bilges

Touch something maybe not wood but the 39i rig also seems fine so far

M

[lennie]

I just discovered the same mast compression problem on my 2000 ,SO 43 DS that others are experiencing.
After sailing one day, on San Francisco Bay, I noticed the riggigging was somewhat loose. Had a rigger survey the mast and rigging and he discovered that the compression post had sunk into the support for the compression post. I called Jeanneau and they said that it was probably water intrusion into the support caused by poor after market installation of some accessory. I have never added anything to the mast area since I bought the boat new in 2001,so I figured that Jeanneau was going to pass the buck as they have done to some of you. The deck supporting the mast step was also deformed about 1/2 inch.
So far,we have unsteped the mast and removed the compression post. Removed the layer of glass covering the post support and found that Jeanneau had used plywood on edge,rather that lying flat,to fill up the support cavity. Placing the extremely heavy loads of the mast onto a 4x4 inch plate sitting on top of several layers of vertical pieces of plywood fillers guarantees failure.
The plywood appears to be dry but have not checked with a moister meter.
Jeaneau recommends removing the wood and replacing it with chop strand and resin mix.
Our local engineers are planning to fabricate an I Beam out of heavy G10 and increase the plate side of the compression posts as others have done.
Don't have a price or success story yet because it is a work in progress.
One thing is certain....Jeanneau really had a defective design in the compression post support.
i hope that they have corrected the design on newer boats.

[rxc]

I think that I now have this problem, and was wondering whether anyone else has had this fixed on the east coast of the US, especially in the Chesapeake. I am about to head north from Florida, where I just had the rigging replaced(!), with the mast down and the boat on the hard for 6 months. I did not notice the problem until I just did a major interior cleaning in prep for the trip north.

I think the boat should be fine to get up the ICW to the Chespeake, where I would have it done.

[yachtingtypes]

After 4 years of having the compression post fixied I have had no further problems although I still do regular inspections. I can send you the repair guide Jeanneau sent if you like assuming the message function allows attachments.

[MalcolmP]

Apr 20, 2016 1:44:32 GMT yachtingtypes said:

After 4 years of having the compression post fixied I have had no further problems although I still do regular inspections. I can send you the repair guide Jeanneau sent if you like assuming the message function allows attachments.

If you email me the attachment [e-mail] I will upload it for all - would be a valuable resource for the future

Malcolm

[rxc]

Malcolm and Yachingtypes,

Thanks very much for this great offer. Following are photos of my mast heel depression. It is about 1/4" (6mm), with the boat sitting in the slip. Under sail, with the boat heeling about 15 degrees, it increases to about 3/8" (8mm). at the most open point. There is no other sign of distress in the "box", which sounds solid when tapped from above, but hollow when tapped on the sides. No cracks at seams and the compression post is still firmly attached to the box. I am wondering whether it might be possible to drill holes into this box and just fill it with epoxy. It will be interesting to see what Jeanneau had to say about it.

[MalcolmP]

On a previous boat - 34.2 I had to temporarily remove the compression post. The mast was not up, so the job was not hard - simply used an "acrow prop" next to the post to make sure the deck was properly supported. 

You may not want the additional cost/hassle of taking down the rig - but perhaps if the rigging was slacked off and with adequate prop support, you could then have much access to make the reinforcement/rebuild of the mast support 

[On y va]

But one needs to repair this without any load. So where would you place an acrow prop or two props? Even with the stays loose-ish, there is still a lot of load of just the mast weight and some pull of the stays, especially on a 43DS compared to a 34 ft boat.

In my view, the best and only way is: mast off, no load. It is a too important repair to not do this properly. And for the 43DS, one might as well strengthen the hull skin areas around the compression posts too at the same time, as these is very thin (well known issue with the 43DS´s of that era).

[MalcolmP]

Here is the guidance from Jeanneau - kindly supplied by yachtingtypes

The direct link is: www.jeanneau-owners.com/Manuals/Sun%20Odyssey%2043DS%20compression%20post%20repair.pdf


or you can select from the "manuals" index at: www.jeanneau-owners.com/technicalmanuals.html

they do say the Mast needs to be unstepped and the deck slightly jacked up

Would be good if we can have photos and reports from anyone who does this fix


Malcolm

[ianqv]

Hi all,
Do we have a clear understanding as to why this concern actually happens? If so, can soneone explain please?
Many thanks
Ian

[On y va]

Apr 23, 2016 16:33:37 GMT MalcolmP said:

Here is the guidance from Jeanneau - kindly supplied by yachtingtypes

The direct link is: www.jeanneau-owners.com/Manuals/Sun%20Odyssey%2043DS%20compression%20post%20repair.pdf


or you can select from the "manuals" index at: www.jeanneau-owners.com/technicalmanuals.html

they do say the Mast needs to be unstepped and the deck slightly jacked up

Would be good if we can have photos and reports from anyone who does this fix


Malcolm

It was quite obvious you can only repair this without load. I have seen similar repairs several times on other boats, never on a Jeanneau though.

But, would someone really want to do this themselves I wonder?? Unless you a really familiar with epoxy´s and resins and such like, I wouldn´t and rather pay a good specialist to have this done. It is too much of important job to go about it yourself to save some money.

But, as always: each to their own.

[rxc]

Once again, thank to Malcolm for posting this guidance. Looking at it does not provide much information about what the inside of the box looks like. I wonder if it might be worthwhile to buy a borescope and drill some holes to see what is in there. Since I will be up in Annapolis, where the Jeanneau America HQ is located, maybe I can get someone to talk to me about it. Pumping a bunch of epoxy into a box would be very much preferable to unstepping the mast again. But if there is no supporting structues to contain it, or if the structure is complicated or damaged, then I guess I will just have to bite the bullet and have it done. I would not necessarily do it myself, but there are a lot of big structures that have their foundations fixed this way. You just pump grout into the ground under the building and you can even get the building to sit up straight. It just requires someone with the right expertise, and that might be available in Annapolis, somewhere.

Ahhh the joy of boats....

[On y va]

Apr 27, 2016 15:12:04 GMT rxc said:

Once again, thank to Malcolm for posting this guidance. Looking at it does not provide much information about what the inside of the box looks like. I wonder if it might be worthwhile to buy a borescope and drill some holes to see what is in there. Since I will be up in Annapolis, where the Jeanneau America HQ is located, maybe I can get someone to talk to me about it. Pumping a bunch of epoxy into a box would be very much preferable to unstepping the mast again. But if there is no supporting structues to contain it, or if the structure is complicated or damaged, then I guess I will just have to bite the bullet and have it done. I would not necessarily do it myself, but there are a lot of big structures that have their foundations fixed this way. You just pump grout into the ground under the building and you can even get the building to sit up straight. It just requires someone with the right expertise, and that might be available in Annapolis, somewhere.

Ahhh the joy of boats....

rxc : the issue is, that just pumping in some epoxy is not the solution, as it does not remove the cause of the problem: the inferior quality wood that was used to fill this space. That is the issue. This needs to be removed and replaced with something that does not compress. Jeanneau suggests chop strand and resin mix......Jeanneau gives a repair solution, but it doesn´t necessarily mean it is the best solution in my opinion.

If I had to do this, I would probably fill it with something more than just chop strand and resin. I would have to see what it looks like and I would be inclined to think more along the lines of a solid block of aluminium or brass or similar, sealed in epoxy and then the rest filled with afore mentioned materials. Bit like having a coin under your mast, as they used to do in the olden days!!